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Old 03-05-2009, 04:49 PM   #46
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But I'm a person who never really dives into the lyrics of songs, and hence often couldn't tell another person what this song was about. And I don't care.
I'm not a Deep Thinker when it comes to lyrics either, nor am I particularly capable of it even if I wanted to try--I was never more than an average student at interpreting poetry, I'm basically rather literal-minded when it comes down to it and the kinds of inspired associative leaps such minds make are often tough for me to follow. (I'm married to a publishing poet though, so I'm forced to get some Here,-Read-This critical practice at regular intervals anyway. ) And when it's not your native language or culture in question, it only makes it that much harder. I remember during a final exam for my Tamil class in grad school, the professor 'surprised' us by having us listen to, transcribe and interpret a few Kollywood songs (Kollywood=Chennai's 'Bollywood'), ranging from an eloquent, densely literary lyric from the film version of a Hindu epic to a cheesy but wordplay-filled love song. Gah, now that was tough! So many levels of meaning that are readily apparent to a native speaker living inside the culture fly right over your head, and the colloquialisms--well you know how that is, you're sitting there scratching your head, completely bewildered by how the heck this combination of words could possibly make sense together, when if you only knew that the whole unit has some specific slang meaning all by itself, you could've just breezed right through and not wasted all that time. Not long ago at a conference, I was intoduced to a professor who'd just translated Ulysses into Mandarin and I thought, Good God! how can you possibly do that? It's hard enough for a native English speaker unfamiliar with Ireland to grasp much of it, and harder still for a non-native speaker...how on earth do you go about recreating that world for a Chinese audience? (And it was actually listening to Breathe that made me recall that earlier today; some obvious nods to Ulysses in there.) But I guess if you can force Hegel to make sense in English than anything must be possible, right.

There's something to be said for being content to just grasp the broad outlines of a lyric and leave it at that, though...you're never gonna know exactly what the songwriter had in mind at the time anyway (unless s/he explains it in detail), so why not just enjoy a little mystery and ambiguity and the places they can take you to. Understanding precisely how each and every part fits together isn't likely to make you love the whole anyway if it failed to grab you from the beginning, even though it might enrich the listening for you if it did; that's one of the wonderful things about art.
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you just made the little undergraduate's heart that still beats in my chest go pitter-patter.

oh, Kristeva ...
Now if only it always worked that way on students at the time, right?

I loved reading her too, but she did make me feel like tearing my hair out at times.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:49 AM   #47
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i'm totally fine with the religion of the band, and Bono in particular, and i like much of the coded but clear biblical references and slippery wordplay when it comes to addressing big theological concerns. i've always liked that about them.
It's not the religiosity of SUC that reminds me of Michael W. Smith though. It's the vocalization and the style of the song. When he sings "voyage of discovery" Bono sounds EXACTLY like Smith. It's weird. I hear funny things though, I guess. I heard Tom Petty in some of the songs from Bomb.

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i just get queasy when, 1) conservative Christians think that Bono is Really One Of Them, and 2) every lyric by the band is intended to be a statement of praise and worship.
I do too. It makes me embarrassed for whoever is drawing the comparison.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:01 PM   #48
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Hey Maycocksean,


How do you pronounce your screen name anyway?

Is it:

May kock-shun?

Curious is all..

<>
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #49
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I love the album. I put it possibly among their most openly religious albums.

I think Boots and Fez are weak. White as Snow is my favorite and Breathe. Magnificent will go down as a big hit.

Good Stuff....I like the new sound.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:33 AM   #50
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Hey Maycocksean,


How do you pronounce your screen name anyway?

Is it:

May kock-shun?

Curious is all..

<>
Ummm. . .yeah, about that.

See when I was signing up for Interference I didn't know that my login name would be my screen name as well. It's just my last name followed by my first name. My name is Sean. You can just call me that.
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Old 03-07-2009, 02:17 PM   #51
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i totally understand that, it's just when i hear things about how, since Bono believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, then that means that Bono also believes that the Hindus are going to Hell ... that is not Bono at all. it's the difference between pointing out a commonality between yourself and Bono, and the assumption that because you have this point in common, therefore, Bono must logically believe everything else that you believe.

that's all.

Same can be said about some of the liberals as well.....isn't it a neat experience when an applicable statement about all people is discovered.
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Old 03-07-2009, 02:52 PM   #52
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Like many, I wasn't crazy about I'll Go Crazy but I must say it plays really well live. Being able to tell that from a youtube clip on Letterman gives me great hope for this one on the tour. A few great sing-along lines.

The more I listen the more I find to appreciate. I especially like listening to the whole thing in sequence - it feels like a thread of a common story woven through each of the songs. Bono has been saying in interviews that these are characters' stories he's telling but it seems much more intimate and autobiographical than that to me. It sounds very much like a spiritual journey and feels like it has the cohesiveness of AB.

Enjoying the sound, nothing unique really, but to me the obvious and varied influences play into the cohesive picture this album gives me. I do love how they can take an influence and make it their own.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:39 PM   #53
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I'm not a Deep Thinker when it comes to lyrics either, nor am I particularly capable of it even if I wanted to try--I was never more than an average student at interpreting poetry, I'm basically rather literal-minded when it comes down to it and the kinds of inspired associative leaps such minds make are often tough for me to follow. (I'm married to a publishing poet though, so I'm forced to get some Here,-Read-This critical practice at regular intervals anyway. ) And when it's not your native language or culture in question, it only makes it that much harder. I remember during a final exam for my Tamil class in grad school, the professor 'surprised' us by having us listen to, transcribe and interpret a few Kollywood songs (Kollywood=Chennai's 'Bollywood'), ranging from an eloquent, densely literary lyric from the film version of a Hindu epic to a cheesy but wordplay-filled love song. Gah, now that was tough! So many levels of meaning that are readily apparent to a native speaker living inside the culture fly right over your head, and the colloquialisms--well you know how that is, you're sitting there scratching your head, completely bewildered by how the heck this combination of words could possibly make sense together, when if you only knew that the whole unit has some specific slang meaning all by itself, you could've just breezed right through and not wasted all that time. Not long ago at a conference, I was intoduced to a professor who'd just translated Ulysses into Mandarin and I thought, Good God! how can you possibly do that? It's hard enough for a native English speaker unfamiliar with Ireland to grasp much of it, and harder still for a non-native speaker...how on earth do you go about recreating that world for a Chinese audience? (And it was actually listening to Breathe that made me recall that earlier today; some obvious nods to Ulysses in there.) But I guess if you can force Hegel to make sense in English than anything must be possible, right.

There's something to be said for being content to just grasp the broad outlines of a lyric and leave it at that, though...you're never gonna know exactly what the songwriter had in mind at the time anyway (unless s/he explains it in detail), so why not just enjoy a little mystery and ambiguity and the places they can take you to. Understanding precisely how each and every part fits together isn't likely to make you love the whole anyway if it failed to grab you from the beginning, even though it might enrich the listening for you if it did; that's one of the wonderful things about art.

Now if only it always worked that way on students at the time, right?

I loved reading her too, but she did make me feel like tearing my hair out at times.

I would put myself in the same category. Analysing poetry and interpreting all the stuff isn't my strong point, either. Hence, I also never really developed a great interest in philosophy.
Thus, I never read Hegel (and as such I can't tell you if he makes sense in German ), but from experience I can tell I would never attempt to translate such a text into any other language. You have to study that language very deeply, otherwise your translation will lead to gross misinterpretations of the text as you simply won't be able to get across what the author himself was getting at.
Same for music. Especially when it comes to the use of idioms and such someone who is not familiar with those will not understand what this bunch of words is meant to say. To see the whole text in its entirety isn't easy as well. And if you just consider how differently some of the texts get interpreted by people who share the same mother tongue, you may grasp just how different an interepretation could be by a non-native speaker.

I sometimes read up on what is meant by a song, and for me meaningful, or powerful, lyrics add to the greatness of a song, but they don't define it. Something like Sunday Bloody Sunday or Pride could be a rap song and would keep its meaning. But since I don't like rap I couldn't care for the song, nevermind its lyrics. I wouldn't be a bigger now less of a U2 fan if I understood each and every of their song from the first to the last word. Music is about melody for me.

I tried to find some Hegel texts online, but all I could find were written in old German letters. Thus, besides the grammar and words being different it's also extremely hard to read the text as the letters are so much different. But should I stumble upon a text of his written in today's letters I will take my time to read a page or two.

I've also repeatedly read the criticism of the other two albums being more a collection of singles than having a theme. I guess me not really paying attention to the meaning of the songs makes that point irrelevant for me personally. I've never thought of an album being good or bad because of a common thread going through all of the songs, but rather because of the track order and such.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:41 PM   #54
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^^ Here's the opening chapter (in German) from his most widely read work. (And here's the same passage translated into English for comparison.) Just skimming a page should be enough to give you a sense of his style...



OK I'll shut up now...back to the thread topic!
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:33 AM   #55
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Cool, thank you. I will bookmark the Aquesta page. Have to say the English translation is more understandable than the German.

But yeah, back to topic. I'm glad Bono is no Hegel.
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:59 AM   #56
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Same can be said about some of the liberals as well.....isn't it a neat experience when an applicable statement about all people is discovered.


you mean the liberals who try to imply that because Bono supported intervention in Bosnia that he therefore was a big supporter of the Iraq invasion?

those liberals?
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:26 PM   #57
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I still remember the first time I listened to October.

It's always been about the lyrics.


Great songwriters don't write lyrics to enhance the music.
They are trying to say something to the listener.


"To those who have ears,
Let them hear."
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:28 PM   #58
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Oh I'm sorry, I might be too stupid for that.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:56 PM   #59
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you mean the liberals who try to imply that because Bono supported intervention in Bosnia that he therefore was a big supporter of the Iraq invasion?

those liberals?
No - I was not implying anything. Good to see you!

There have been in the past people on both sides of the aisle who would like to feel that Bono is in line with their way of thinking. That was my point PERIOD

Are you trying to say that ONLY conservatives are guilty of such things? Is it wrong to point out that it happens on both sides of the aisle?

Again, so very nice to see you

I do believe that this is one of the most openly religious albums other than maybe October that the band has produced. I think that I see it because of my religious background, and I love the fact that I can identify with the religious themes within the album.

My brother in law does not see the album that way. He does not see the religious themes nor does he agree with me that Magnificent is almost Psalm like in its lyrics. He sees a self absorbed Bono.......:O)

I guess my point - people see what they want - but not just what they like for those of us who hold this band to our hearts - like any hero - we want to identify with them...so we see what we want - no matter what our ideology.
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:39 PM   #60
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I'm liking it more with each listen. At first, I was concerned. It sounded too shiny to me. But now I'm liking nearly every track. I don't think it's "Achtung, Baby," but it's pretty good. It is without a doubt their most spiritual album, which is exciting to me. I can't wait to hear "Songs of Ascent," which sounds to be even more so. I love the imagery of Christ in "White as Snow," and the all out worship of "Magnificent." Then there's "Unknown Caller," which is like sci-fi gospel. I also like "Boots" - yes, I said it. Listen to Hendrix and it makes more sense (to me at least, and no, I don't mean for the guitars. The drums and backing vocals are similar.) The one song that's still really growing on me is "Crazy Tonight." It's not horrible, but it's not my favorite by any stretch. A little too pop for me. "Cedars" and "Breathe" are amazing. I love the focus that "Breathe" has on Grace. Well done. "Stand Up Comedy" is growing on me, too.
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