FYM This...! - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-19-2012, 05:27 PM   #61
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
They take "chemical imbalance" as a common fact, and medication as the silver bullet.


i don't see anyone here doing this. i think everyone realizes that medicine is one tool used to combat mental illness, and it's often a very powerful tool and uncountable lives have been improved with medication. but a magic bullet? sorry.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #62
LJT
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
LJT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belfast
Posts: 5,039
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
And just because everyone accepts the theory, they still can't answer why the number of mental illness has increased since the advent of psychiatric medication. Does that seem odd to you?
Doesn't seem that odd, at least since the 70's I believe diagnosis of and recognition of various mental illnesses has increased. We're just better at detecting it, like an awful lot of other illnesses. There is also a case that can be made we are making medicalising some things that shouldn't be especially in regards to the DSM.

The advent of psychiatric medication sorta dovetails with most psychiatric disorders being taken as a an actual science and medical issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
My hopes for this thread is mental healthcare reform that offers freedom of choice. My hope is that mental health services is offered to anyone who needs or wants them, but also they may choose alternative treatments, other than psychiatry and medication. Alternative treatments include Eastern medicine alternatives, the choice to stay in psychotherapy and not in 15 minute sessions with a shrink. Alternative treatment for me means basically living healthy without some medical machinations.

I've been thinking about how most people with disability go about their day-- living. My guess is that the disabled all try to make it through the day, some having it harder than others.

I'm going to go out on the limb of common sense to say that the "mentally ill", particularly those on disability, definitely do just try to get by in life. I'll go out on the limb to say that we're too busy on the Internet than to scheme some grand plan of terror and mayhem. In fact, we're too busy suffering; and we're suffering for having suffering. We're suffering from trauma and adversity that has detoured us from a norm of living. We end up being diagnosed from being depression to everything possible on DSM (probably not exaggerating), and being prescribed from one antidepressant to a cocktail of meds (definitely not exaggerating). We're being denied of our original trauma and actual problems that are most likely not due to chemical imbalance in the first place.

But most I've noticed lately is that people lump the "mentally ill"--the "mentally ill" encompasses the depressed, the bipolar, the anxious, the phobic, the "schizo*"... all lumped into one. As if we're all time bombs ready to go off. As if we should be herded and warded off into some camp, like cattle or subhumans.

But whatever the "Other" (politicians, docs, neighbors) may have in mind to treat us, I don't want the conventional methods of meds, electroshock therapy, and hospitalization for treatment. I don't want treatment; I want healing. Healing from healthy living and relationships. Not medication, diagnosis, and isolation. And it is the prospect of healing and its possibility that government and public policy could preclude it, is what concerns me the most.
Mental Health reform is an admiral reform, which most people I imagine would agree with, there is a lot that could be done better for the patient than just medication, though again I reiterate I don't know of anyone which recommends this as the only way. In a cost driven world I know medication is often pushed as the way and I know it is abused, it does not come as a shock. The alternatives you mention though such as eastern medicine and that are a fantasy in terms of mental health. Your going from something that at least has some good evidence to support it's efficacy to something that has none.

I also agree you should be looked at as human beings and not as dangerous animals, but again the media like simple narratives. Many people with mental health issues do suffer alone, but your line about that they should just be able to get on with your life with your own choices, those in the throes of a deeply psychotic state or at the depths of depression are not prone to make the most life affirming decisions. Medication and therapy are at least the best means we have at the moment to enable them to seek out and make their own choices about life in the future.
__________________

__________________
LJT is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #63
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Gotta go.

Few questions to ask:
1.) Why is the number of mentally ill people increasing since the advent of psychiatric medication?
2.) Why do poorer countries like India have schizophrenics who fare better than the rich countries, AND only 16% are regularly maintained on medication?
3.) Why has those mentally ill/psychotic on disability grown 4x since the arrival of Thorazine?

Are these questions not relevant to understanding what's behind mental illness?
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:32 PM   #64
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Few questions, points to distill:

1. Why are the number of mentally ill people increasing since the advent of psychiatric medication?

2. Why is the disability rate due to psychotic illness has increased 4x in our society since the arrival of Thorazine?

3. Why do schizophrenics fare better in poorer countries like India, where only 16% of schizophrenics are regularly maintained on medication?

Are these questions not relevant for understanding what's behind mental illness?
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:32 PM   #65
LJT
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
LJT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belfast
Posts: 5,039
Local Time: 02:03 PM
2.) Underreporting I imagine, the family often try to look after the person themselve and struggle on doing so, shame and all that of seeking help for someone who is unwell in that way...I have a good friend who worked at a psychiatric hospital in India, and well most of the schizophrenics were chained in their cells.

Plus psych meds are expensive they don't have ready access to them.
__________________
LJT is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:38 PM   #66
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJT View Post
Many people with mental health issues do suffer alone, but your line about that they should just be able to get on with your life with your own choices, those in the throes of a deeply psychotic state or at the depths of depression are not prone to make the most life affirming decisions. Medication and therapy are at least the best means we have at the moment to enable them to seek out and make their own choices about life in the future.
Probably right. Though, we ourselves can't pick out a person in public and literally go "Hey, you're weird! You should be hospitalized."

There are those mentally ill suffering and suffering for suffering, because they're ostracized by other people... and all they want to heal. and for those who want to heal, like me, want that freedom of choice. In fact, we're the ones trying to take the first steps and effort toward that path, but are often block by the doctors and the system.

anyways, later.
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 07:52 PM   #67
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 3,825
Local Time: 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post

People on meds for most of their lifetime are more likely to end up with Alzheimer's or some cognitive degeneration, and brain shrinkage.



__________________
Steved1998 is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:27 PM   #68
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
Free Your Mind. Foist Your Mind. We're here to be challenged with preconceived notions and presumptions, and to exchange thoughts and ideas, right? Or are we to mildly agree on somethings and shut out the unacceptable topics by consensus?

Yeah, I've got a ton load of information. And it isn't fair to dump it all.

But if people want their world shaken and see things differently, well, here's a crash course.
A ton load of information? Shaking up people's worlds?

Perhaps it would engender more productive discussion if you came across a little less aggressively certain that you've got all the answers and anyone who begs to differ just doesn't have your knowledge yet.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #69
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,863
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
1. Why are the number of mentally ill people increasing since the advent of psychiatric medication?
Because we have been getting better at diagnosing mentally ill people?
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 12:18 AM   #70
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
[QUOTE=Steved1998;7609738]

Gave you the citation. Go read it.
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 12:28 AM   #71
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJT View Post
2.) Underreporting I imagine, the family often try to look after the person themselve and struggle on doing so, shame and all that of seeking help for someone who is unwell in that way...I have a good friend who worked at a psychiatric hospital in India, and well most of the schizophrenics were chained in their cells.

Plus psych meds are expensive they don't have ready access to them.
Just got back from watching Zero Dark Thirty. Strangely, there's something I identify with it but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's a TV show... anyway, sorry...

LJT-- The question concerning why the disability rate due to psychotic illness since the arrival of Thorazine, and the other more general question, why are there more mentally ill people since the advent of psychiatric medication, are obviously similar. This is the question that has been plaguing Whitaker that he felt he had to investigate and take a stand.

The other article by Healy takes its concern about antipsychotics administered to veterans and suicide on the same logic. Why since the administration of antipsychotics to veterans, suicide have increased significantly when compared before 1955.

It seems that you are quite knowledge about psychiatric medicine on a professional/academic level. You might want to check out Whitaker's book if you have the time or interest.
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 12:35 AM   #72
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
A ton load of information? Shaking up people's worlds?

Perhaps it would engender more productive discussion if you came across a little less aggressively certain that you've got all the answers and anyone who begs to differ just doesn't have your knowledge yet.
You're right, I sucked up the air when I started this thread. (Not being sarcastic.)

This thread is for those with disappointment with psychiatric medication.

I'm already sick of people just coming in to chastise repetitively the same thing. But it's their right to an opinion.

Sure, call me irresponsible for saying/warning to stay away from psychiatric medications. Make that a litmus test for crazy people, and I have been outed here as crazy.

People understandably want to commiserate on experiences with meds and family and take a more grateful stance, go start another thread.

Since I'm the only one who's upset with the issue and brought it up, go lock this thread.
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:00 AM   #73
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,863
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solemole View Post
This thread is for those with disappointment with psychiatric medication.
This is downright silly. What is the point of a thread devoted to one side of an issue?

This thread SHOULD be for people who want to discuss psychiatric medication. It's your inability to deal with disagreement that has caused all of the problems.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:06 AM   #74
War Child
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: in a series of dreams
Posts: 578
Local Time: 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
This is downright silly. What is the point of a thread devoted to one side of an issue?

This thread SHOULD be for people who want to discuss psychiatric medication. It's your inability to deal with disagreement that has caused all of the problems.
Yeah, sure, okay. I started this thread without setting the parameters or direction of the discussion.

Want to start a discussion about psychiatric medication? Start another thread. This thread is tainted for such discussions.

I don't know whether it's my "inability to deal with disagreements that has caused all the problems", because I started this thread and people stepped out, skimmed what I posted, and called bullshit. Disagreement on my part? Mmm.
__________________
solemole is offline  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:26 AM   #75
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 02:03 PM
If you want to discuss psychiatric medication, then why are you making outrageous and moronic claims like "People should love their kids, rather than send them to a psychiatrist"?

Been there, done that. My parents sure loved me, I got attention whatever. But that sure as hell didn't save my childhood. While going to a psych probably would have.
__________________

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com