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Old 06-15-2009, 04:23 PM   #16
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So you don't have anything else to say about it other than commenting about how no one's commenting here?

If you want to talk about a topic, don't be all tsk-tsk that someone hasn't already started a topic or that more people aren't commenting.

This website isn't the end-all, be-all of web discussion or some indicator of how much people care about it.

Start the topic yourself and continue it.

{/mini rant}
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:26 PM   #17
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Wow, nothing new? They're dying now.
Personally, I've been glued to Andrew Sullivan's blog all day. There's a depth of coverage there that you'll never get from the mainstream media, even if they decide to talk about it.

Something Andrew wrote I related to:

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This blog has long been interested in Iran, especially in its younger generation so open to the West. Part of it is that I've long believed that Iran was much more likely to become a democracy than its neighboring Arab states - and that this might be the key to unwinding the clash of civilizations that was hurtling us toward apocalyptic scenarios. Part of it is that being immersed in online media, I'm perhaps more aware of the vibrant debate, evolving culture and amazing passion of Iran's Millennials. So this day is a moment of great hope and joy for those of us who have been waiting for it and knowing that one day, it would come. But many Americans have, sadly, been left unaware of this phenomenon - and a glance at the cable news of the weekend helps explain why.
Interestingly enough, I've believed that too.

He's also done a good job of pointing out the neocon reaction to all of this, and most of it has been quite shocking even for them.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
So you don't have anything else to say about it other than commenting about how no one's commenting here?

If you want to talk about a topic, don't be all tsk-tsk that someone hasn't already started a topic or that more people aren't commenting.
I agree, the "tsk-tsk"/baiting type of attitude about people dying speaks volumes!
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:38 PM   #19
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He's also done a good job of pointing out the neocon reaction to all of this, and most of it has been quite shocking even for them.
We shoulda bombed Iran when they all wanted to, that would have been much better than the people of Iran taking matters into their own hands like this.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:53 PM   #20
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We shoulda bombed Iran when they all wanted to, that would have been much better than the people of Iran taking matters into their own hands like this.
Actually, I find it's even worse. The neocons have been arguing, basically, in favour of Ahmadinejad's legitimacy as president and, simultaneously, undercutting the arguments of the reformers basically because it makes their case for invading Iran easier. In short, they really want to go to war again, and having a bunch of despotic theocrats running the country makes Iran easier for the Western public to hate, thus making it easier to go to war.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:59 PM   #21
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Iran on a bad day is better than the corrupt Middle Eastern kleptocracies that the West finances. The OP asks why there has been little interest in the fallout from the Iranian elections, I would ask why have there been no threads on Dubai's slave labour practices?

Melon, surely Andrew Sullivan is the very epitome of the mainstream media. He writes for the Murdoch press. How much more mainstream can you get?
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:14 PM   #22
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Iran on a bad day is better than the corrupt Middle Eastern kleptocracies that the West finances. The OP asks why there has been little interest in the fallout from the Iranian elections, I would ask why have there been no threads on Dubai's slave labour practices?
Apples and oranges. Are there any popular revolts occurring presently in any of these kleptocracies? Certainly, there are a lot of long-simmering issues in the world, but why must that imply implicit support? The sheer fact is that it often takes "explosive" developments to put an old issue back to the forefront. I guess we can call that a flaw of human nature.

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Melon, surely Andrew Sullivan is the very epitome of the mainstream media. He writes for the Murdoch press. How much more mainstream can you get?
We can certainly make an argument as to what constitutes "mainstream media," I guess, but, for all intents and purposes, what he's criticizing, specifically, is how the American media outlets--particularly cable television news--have handled it.

From what I've read, Sullivan speaks his own mind, not that of his corporate benefactors. Sullivan is a gay conservative, who has, as of late, become rather pointedly anti-Republican and even became an Obama supporter. Likewise, presuming he writes for the "Murdoch press," the overlords must not oversee him too tightly, as he roundly criticized FOX News' coverage (or lack thereof) of Iran.

But even at that, looking at the ownership of "The Atlantic," whom he works for and who hosts his blog, they appear to be independently owned--not owned by Murdoch.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
So you don't have anything else to say about it other than commenting about how no one's commenting here?

If you want to talk about a topic, don't be all tsk-tsk that someone hasn't already started a topic or that more people aren't commenting.

This website isn't the end-all, be-all of web discussion or some indicator of how much people care about it.

Start the topic yourself and continue it.

{/mini rant}


Sorry. I was in a hurry.




Wait, never mind. I thought you were a moderator for a second.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:28 PM   #24
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No, just a drive-by mini-rant.

It's an unsettling story, and I'm definitely following it.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:30 PM   #25
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Apples and oranges. Are there any popular revolts occurring presently in any of these kleptocracies? Certainly, there are a lot of long-simmering issues in the world, but why must that imply implicit support? The sheer fact is that it often takes "explosive" developments to put an old issue back to the forefront. I guess we can call that a flaw of human nature.
Well, that's true, but in the case of the mid East kleptocracies, the West is arguably implicitly supporting them by doing business with them but that does not apply to Iran. Over the years that I have been here, Iran has got an awful lot of coverage, and to be honest, most of the articles posted - not including this thread - have been from the neo-'conservative' vantage point. In fact when I say that Iran has gotten a lot of coverage, I really should say the country itself has got virtually none, it's mainly been discussions about whether military intervention is or isn't justified or what the Mad Mullahs have being up to lately.


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From what I've read, Sullivan speaks his own mind, not that of his corporate benefactors. Sullivan is a gay conservative, who has, as of late, become rather pointedly anti-Republican and even became an Obama supporter. Likewise, presuming he writes for the "Murdoch press," the overlords must not oversee him too tightly, as he roundly criticized FOX News' coverage (or lack thereof) of Iran.

But even at that, looking at the ownership of "The Atlantic," whom he works for and who hosts his blog, they appear to be independently owned--not owned by Murdoch.
Sullivan is a reformed neocon to an extent, but now returning, in my view, to moderate liberalism, not true conservatism. True believing conservatives wouldn't advocate support for Obama, they would go for a third party candidate if they disliked the two main party candidates. Still, a liberal is better than a neocon in my book.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:33 PM   #26
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No, just a drive-by mini-rant.
The best kind of rant !
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:40 PM   #27
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Iran’s Election: None of America’s Business by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:39 PM   #28
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Very brave woman.

YouTube - Police Riot Beating Women and Man in Streets of Tehran
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:39 PM   #29
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Sullivan is a reformed neocon to an extent, but now returning, in my view, to moderate liberalism, not true conservatism. True believing conservatives wouldn't advocate support for Obama, they would go for a third party candidate if they disliked the two main party candidates. Still, a liberal is better than a neocon in my book.
If Justin Raimondo is what one would call a "true conservative," then I guess we're all raving neocon lefties then.

Thankfully, most people "left" of Raimondo and Attila the Hun are more nuanced than that--at least the ones of non-demagogic motives.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:46 PM   #30
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If Justin Raimondo is what one would call a "true conservative," then I guess we're all raving neocon lefties then.

Thankfully, most people "left" of Raimondo and Attila the Hun are more nuanced than that--at least the ones of non-demagogic motives.

Well, Justin Raimondo and Attila the Hun have really nothing in common, seeing as Justin Raimondo's over-riding political principle is being anti-war.
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