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Old 02-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by the iron horse
As a Libertarian, I usually dislike governement intervention,

but I would agree on this ban.

This is one law I would to see enforced.

Why are these people talking or texting while driving?

Why can't the conversations wait?
This is why libertarians are constantly failing.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:52 PM   #32
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Yeah, but that's like saying we shouldn't require seatbelts because people are still going to die in accidents anyway.
I fully support seatbelts being in cars (still mystified as to why they're not in school buses, unless that's started changing). I use one all the time. However, we forget that there are stories out there where people died in a car wreck because they were wearing a seatbelt that jammed and they couldn't get free. Seatbelts are more likely to protect you, yes, but they pose their own problems on occasion, too.

I think it's sad this discussion has to take place at all. You would think we shouldn't have to tell people that texting, or talking on the phone, or drinking, or whatever, while driving is a bad, dangerous thing to do. It should be a "no duh".

Unfortunately, people don't get it. However, a ban won't solve the problem. People might be more inclined to get the message if we make the punishment for doing such things so tough they don't want to encounter it. Jail time if the accident you cause leads to severe injury or death (and I think it wouldn't hurt to revoke driving privileges for a long time, if not permanently. If you've been in trouble more than once for bad driving, you shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel at all). If it doesn't lead to that, but you're still responsible for the accident, you are forced to pay all the hefty accident bills for yourself and those you hurt, if there's a fine, put that in, too. We need to enforce the laws we do have much more strongly, or tweak them if we think they aren't tough enough, so people get the picture that if they do something this stupid, there will be serious consequences for them and the people they put in danger.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:04 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
I fully support seatbelts being in cars (still mystified as to why they're not in school buses, unless that's started changing). I use one all the time. However, we forget that there are stories out there where people died in a car wreck because they were wearing a seatbelt that jammed and they couldn't get free. Seatbelts are more likely to protect you, yes, but they pose their own problems on occasion, too.
Good point.

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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
I think it's sad this discussion has to take place at all. You would think we shouldn't have to tell people that texting, or talking on the phone, or drinking, or whatever, while driving is a bad, dangerous thing to do. It should be a "no duh".

Unfortunately, people don't get it. However, a ban won't solve the problem. People might be more inclined to get the message if we make the punishment for doing such things so tough they don't want to encounter it. Jail time if the accident you cause leads to severe injury or death (and I think it wouldn't hurt to revoke driving privileges for a long time, if not permanently. If you've been in trouble more than once for bad driving, you shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel at all). If it doesn't lead to that, but you're still responsible for the accident, you are forced to pay all the hefty accident bills for yourself and those you hurt, if there's a fine, put that in, too. We need to enforce the laws we do have much more strongly, or tweak them if we think they aren't tough enough, so people get the picture that if they do something this stupid, there will be serious consequences for them and the people they put in danger.
I'm not convinced of this argument at all, I'm afraid. There is evidence that wearing seatbelts causes people to drive faster, for example. In other words, it's potentially dangerous to put too many restrictions on driving behaviour, as it potentially causes drivers to think of themselves as almost invincible - which is presumably the opposite of the intended effect.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:10 AM   #34
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I wear a seatbelt because I'm a really good driver and everyone else sucks. Can't be getting killed because someone else is a shitty driver.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:13 AM   #35
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I wear a seatbelt because I'm a really good driver and everyone else sucks. Can't be getting killed because someone else is a shitty driver.
Yes. Well, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:21 AM   #36
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I thought phrasing it "I'm a really good driver and everyone else sucks" would make it obvious that I was being facetious, but then again, this is the forum where I keep getting informed by INDY that I hate America, so I guess I should have expected nothing less.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
(still mystified as to why they're not in school buses, unless that's started changing).
It's been shown that seatbelts could cause more harm than good on school buses
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:21 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
This is why libertarians are constantly failing.


No, this is why Libertarians are always confused as to why some people
just can't do the right thing. (on their own...without a government mandate)

Like, yeah, driving and talking/texting while driving is not safe.

I could be killed or kill other people.


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Old 02-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
I thought phrasing it "I'm a really good driver and everyone else sucks" would make it obvious that I was being facetious, but then again, this is the forum where I keep getting informed by INDY that I hate America, so I guess I should have expected nothing less.
Actually I think it's a fair statement. I've heard people tell me *they* don't have to wear a belt because *they* are only going a few blocks and are super careful. OK but what happens when they're minding your own business, driving 5 under, obeying traffic laws and some yahoo blows a red light going 20 over and T-bones their vehicle?
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse

No, this is why Libertarians are always confused as to why some people
just can't do the right thing. (on their own...without a government mandate)
I'm confused as to why I've never found one single consistent libertarian?

This is a contradiction to what you claim is your political belief, I think it's very hypocritical.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #41
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It's been shown that seatbelts could cause more harm than good on school buses
Oh, really? Interesting. I assume it has to do a bit with what I mentioned earlier, about people being trapped if the bus crashes? Or are there other, bigger reasons?

I just found it strange school buses don't have seatbelts given how strict the laws are about them in general and how much demand has come down for them over the years by people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I'm not convinced of this argument at all, I'm afraid. There is evidence that wearing seatbelts causes people to drive faster, for example. In other words, it's potentially dangerous to put too many restrictions on driving behaviour, as it potentially causes drivers to think of themselves as almost invincible - which is presumably the opposite of the intended effect.
I fully understand that argument, and think it definitely has merit.

But something should be done, because if you want to risk your own life by not wearing a seatbelt in your car, for instance, that's your deal. But when you drive, your actions do affect other people around you. And I'm not really in the mood to get in a car accident because someone's text couldn't possibly wait until after they stopped driving, or someone couldn't wait until they got home to have a few drinks, or whatever. Like I said, I agree a flat out ban isn't going to solve a problem, banning stuff never does. But I'd like to know that there would be some sort of consequence for people's stupid actions.

I don't expect to solve the problem completely, you'll have idiots no matter what we do. But if it can change someone's mind and make them realize they aren't invincible and they could find themselves in a tragic situation, it'd be a start.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Like, yeah, driving and talking/texting while driving is not safe.

I could be killed or kill other people.
so wait...seatbelts are bad and we shouldn't have them in our cars, but people shouldn't be allowed to talk on cell phones while driving? what about personal freedoms? i pay attention to the road while talking on my phone, honest.




 
in case anyone can't tell, i'm joking in that last sentence. i never talk while driving. it's unsafe.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:21 PM   #43
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i don't quite understand why a hands free device is banned yet devices pre-installed by the manufacturer are a.o.k.

what's the difference?


i used to text and drive all the time before i switched to a touch screen phone. that's just damned impossible.

so perhaps the 12 people on the earth who still have a blackberry can be allowed to still text and drive.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:25 AM   #44
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I'm not sure about that. I think hands free sets should not be banned, but fiddling with the phone itself/texting while driving is just plain dangerous. I have a hands free system and sometimes when I'm stuck in traffic (bumper to bumper) I like to call my fiance and talk to her. Since nobody really goes over 10mph in these traffic jams it's not as if I'm endangering anybody else. It's a tough call though because so many people are stupid about it. I think a lot of people would do it anyway even if it was banned.

I think at the very least, if you were texting and it got you into an accident the accident should count as at fault.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:12 AM   #45
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Obviously you're at fault.

Just like if you hit somebody because you're turning the station on your radio its your fault, or if you're eating a cheeseburger it's your fault.
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