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Old 01-24-2009, 12:36 AM   #1
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Friday night dispatch 1

This Heaven
(Gilmour/Gilmour - Samson)

All the pieces fall into place
When we walk these fields
And I reach out to touch your face
This earthly heaven is enough for me

So break the bread and pour the wine
I need no blessings but I'm counting mine
Life is much more than money buys
When I see the faith in my children's eyes

I've felt the power in a holy place
And wished for comfort when in need
Now I'm here in a state of grace
This earthly heaven is enough for me

So break the bread and pour the wine
I need no blessings but I'm counting mine
Life is much more than money buys
When I see the faith in my children's eyes

-David Gilmour, atheist
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:22 AM   #2
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Will there be a 2?
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:24 AM   #3
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Quite possibly. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Let's just see how #1 goes down. : patience:
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:48 AM   #4
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I don't believe in athiests.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:51 AM   #5
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I don't believe in athiests.
How could you, it's atheists.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:53 AM   #6
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How could you, it's atheists.
If they don't exist, it doesn't matter how it's spelled, does it?

And whatever happed to i before e except after C. It figures the ATHEISTS would have a problem with that too.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:56 AM   #7
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A rather nice lot of sentiment; with the possibilities in this world what more could we want.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:35 PM   #8
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Is the idea of heaven on earth at odds with the idea of a kingdom of heaven?

This question is for the theists.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:25 PM   #9
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I don't think so. Jesus said, "The kingdom of heaven is within you."

To me, that means getting in touch with your spiritual core, or even Nirvana.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:41 AM   #10
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I don't think so. Jesus said, "The kingdom of heaven is within you."

To me, that means getting in touch with your spiritual core, or even Nirvana.
Eh. . .He only said that once, and taken in the context of everything else He said which definitely implied an "exterior" kingdom, I don't think it's accurate to make this statement a core teaching of His.

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Is the idea of heaven on earth at odds with the idea of a kingdom of heaven?

This question is for the theists.
I don't think so. Certainly not in the striving for making this world a better place. I think the idea that if you believe in eternal life you will automatically be careless of life on this earth is inaccurate. As a Christian, I certainly don't have the classic "pie in the sky by and by" view.

The sterotype implied by the song lyrics quoted by OP that the believers are sitting around dreaming about heaven while the earth burns, while the atheists are out there soaking up all the joy of life and nobly going about making the world a better place just doesn't line up with reality.

My feeling is that most people, whether believer or not, are pretty much the same, and want pretty much the same things out of life.

Well, now that Iron Horse is putting out the Sunday Dispatches and and VP has got the Friday Night Dispatches, I guess I'll have to start putting out the Sabbath Dispatches on Saturday, and we'll have the whole weekend covered!
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:50 AM   #11
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Whether or not you're a believer (like me), this is one BEAUTIFUL song.
I've never heard it before but the lyrics are gorgeous!
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:02 AM   #12
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I strongly disagree with the idea of a heaven, either supernatural or must more pressingly in the real world. How many millions have died in the pursuit of utopia?

Obviously a definition of what heaven ought to be is impossible. I don't consider a world where people spend their time in submission to God very nice, religious people may not look at the world and find enough as it is. There will never be a one size fits all heaven (when Fred Phelps goes into heaven will he find gay people? Will gay people find Fred Phelps?).

In the real world the abolition of suffering is impossible given the way we interact with each other, we are not intrinsically evil but we can be selfish, this may not create the best outcomes for everybody but it does make things more interesting.

Eternity is a horrific thought, existence without the hope of inexistence, even in the most luxurious conditions a finite brain will become exhausted and passive; it would be a perpetual prison. My near certainty that when my brain stops I no longer exist as a living person is a genuinely heartening thought, there are few situations where I would savour death - but contrasted against eternity it looks attractive.

/I would love to know of any authors who have written about the horror of eternity, I've definitely heard similar ideas so these thoughts are not pulled from the ether.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:05 AM   #13
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Atheists are people too!
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:35 AM   #14
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The sterotype implied by the song lyrics quoted by OP that the believers are sitting around dreaming about heaven while the earth burns, while the atheists are out there soaking up all the joy of life and nobly going about making the world a better place just doesn't line up with reality.
I think it's pretty much the same fallacy some believers have when saying that atheists don't care about the world and their impact on it and other people since for us there is no afterlife and no higher reason.

Same argument, different reasoning and as wrong.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:51 AM   #15
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The argument that the earth has to burn for some of us to get into heaven isn't being declared from both sides.
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