Free Speech - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-22-2015, 08:40 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 05:14 AM
Free Speech

Majority Of Dems OK With Criminalization Of Hate Speech | The Daily Caller


This scares the living daylights out of me.

If you agree, please explain why you are okay with a government or a majority deciding that certain speech should be criminalized.
__________________

__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Polish-American Stronghold PA
Posts: 4,144
Local Time: 05:14 AM
I agree. We have the first Amendment. If we lock up Neo-Nazis. We'll have to lock up Farakhan. And is a church service open to these laws if they preach against certain behaviors. I'm I allowed to say I think getting a sex change is a conscience choice and not following the path of some embedded gender identity.

Oh wait the cops are knocking. They saw my post. Gotta run !
__________________

__________________
Oregoropa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 03:54 AM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 17,410
Local Time: 05:14 AM
What a great shitpost for your 3,000th, iron horse
__________________
DaveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 04:18 AM   #4
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,037
Local Time: 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
I'm I allowed to say I think getting a sex change is a conscience choice and not following the path of some embedded gender identity.
Yeah I'd definitely get a "sex change" knowing that I would spend the rest of my being abused by bigots and far more likely to kill myself. Great "choice".
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 08:28 AM   #5
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 11:14 AM
Honestly? I think free speech is great and all, but that people may be damn well condemned for what they say. You're allowed to say everything, but that also means you are responsible for what you say and should face the consequences of it. I'm not sure these consequences have to necessarily be enforced by law though. In some cases, absolutely, but sadly people have the right to be narrow minded bigots just as much as people have the right to be normal human beings.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 10:32 AM   #6
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 04:14 AM
Free Speech

I think that as long as one isn't yelling fire in a crowded theater, to borrow an oft-abused cliché, free speech should be nigh completely unregulated. Obviously, when it crosses the line into inciting violence (and there's likely a good conversation to be had about what constitutes "inciting violence"), it can no longer be protected. But, short of that, I can't think of any speech I'd be in favor of criminalizing.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 01:17 PM   #7
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:14 AM
Free speech doesn't mean consequence free speech.

You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

Just speakin' your Christian beliefs may lead to people boycotting your business. That's not bullying.

I never need to respect anyone's beliefs, just their right to hold and express them.

All that said, I have issues with "hate speech" and "hate crimes." These are complex things. I wouldn't agree that hate speech should be "illegal" as this silly, click bait headline suggests.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2015, 01:31 PM   #8
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,805
Local Time: 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
I never need to respect anyone's beliefs, just their right to hold and express them.
This.
__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2015, 10:03 PM   #9
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,720
Local Time: 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
I never need to respect anyone's beliefs, just their right to hold and express them.
Ayup.
__________________
corianderstem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2015, 12:05 AM   #10
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:14 AM
The right to hold them and express them doesn't mean they get to go unchallenged, or that you and your business won't face social opprobrium should you express them.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2015, 08:53 PM   #11
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 05:14 AM
This is well worth reading, I think, whether you are a liberal or a conservative.

The writer is a liberal professor.

"Instead of focusing on the rightness or wrongness (or even acceptability) of the materials we reviewed in class, the complaint would center solely on how my teaching affected the student's emotional state. As I cannot speak to the emotions of my students, I could not mount a defense about the acceptability of my instruction. This shift in student teacher dynamic placed many of the traditional goals of higher education — such as having students challenge their beliefs — off limits."

All of it here >

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/...ofessor-afraid
__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2015, 09:53 PM   #12
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 04:14 AM
Interesting at times, although self absorbed and misguided at times.

I think the problem is multi-faceted and has nothing to do with right and left. We see this issue in here; we have a growing population that just doesn't know how to engage, they were never equipped to do so, and when they try and speak their side and come upon the facts or questions that challenge them they cry victim rather than back away and rethink or research. And then you have another side of the factor that has become too sensitive to anything labeled a victim, the litigious issues have become so overwhelming in certain arenas.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 02:05 PM   #13
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
This is well worth reading, I think, whether you are a liberal or a conservative.

The writer is a liberal professor.

"Instead of focusing on the rightness or wrongness (or even acceptability) of the materials we reviewed in class, the complaint would center solely on how my teaching affected the student's emotional state. As I cannot speak to the emotions of my students, I could not mount a defense about the acceptability of my instruction. This shift in student teacher dynamic placed many of the traditional goals of higher education — such as having students challenge their beliefs — off limits."

All of it here >

I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me - Vox


Quote:
I was a liberal adjunct professor at a large university until 2013, and my liberal students never scared me at all.

I covered sensitive topics in my courses, including rape, capital punishment, female genital mutilation, and disputed accounts of mass atrocities. Our classroom debates were contentious, and forced students to examine their own biases. I kept an "on-call" list that pressured students to participate actively in those discussions. I did not use trigger warnings.

I never had any complaints.

I bring up my own experiences as a reminder that if the plural of anecdote isn't data, the singular of it sure as hell isn't, either. The fact that I enjoyed my time teaching doesn't tell you anything about the state of education in America — and neither does the fact that the pseudonymous author of this Vox article is a liberal professor who is terrified of his liberal students.

And yet the response to his article, which as of this writing has now been shared more than 190,000 times on Facebook, shows it has struck a nerve. This is something people are genuinely concerned about — enough that the thoughts of an unidentified man from the Midwest feel like a revelation, as if some secret truth everyone suspected has finally been exposed.

In other words, it's truthy: it offers a conclusion that feels as if it should be true, even though it isn't accompanied by much in the way of actual evidence. In this case, that truthy conclusion is that the rise of identity politics is doing real harm — that this new kind of discourse, whether you call it "identity politics" or "call-out culture" or "political correctness," is not just annoying or upsetting to the people it targets, but a danger to academic freedom and therefore an actual substantive problem to be addressed.

I was a liberal adjunct professor. My liberal students didn’t scare me at all. - Vox


truthiness.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2015, 02:31 PM   #14
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
iron yuppie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,439
Local Time: 04:14 AM
The initial article doesn't go into too much detail about his or her methods in the class. But if a teacher is pushing certain perspectives on the students, there is bound to be push-back, and rightly so. Teachers should discuss relevant social issues, but the role is to bring light to the underlying causes and present differing ideas, letting the students arrive at their own conclusions. I firmly believe it is not the job of a teacher to push ideals of right and wrong on students, except in egregious cases like hate speech etc.
__________________

__________________
iron yuppie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com