Fort Hood Shootings

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Should Muslims be allowed in the Army? Yes. Should some Muslims in key positions with tons of authority be watched a little more closely considering we at war with two Muslim countries and Global War that many Muslims believe is a war on the entire Muslim world? I think that would be wise.

I think the second part is the worst thing we could do. We are not fighting an entire religion. We are not even fighting an entire country at this stage of either war. Keep that in mind. If anything Muslims in key positions are an advantage. They probably have a better understanding of the culture and beliefs of the region. That can be helpful for troops in the middle east. They might even be more driven to combat terrorists who create a terrible image of Islam around the world and murder innocent people in the name of it. They may even have creative new ideas on dealing with that. My fear is that this act may inspire a similar view or worse.
 
As John Wayne Gacy was a plotting mass murderer and Timothy McViegh was a plotting mass murderer, so is Nidal Malik Hasan, and deserves the same penalty.

What, and they weren't disturbed people?

Just because it was pre-meditated doesn't mean they weren't highly disturbed individuals.
 
Thank you.

There is NO justification for his actions. But, before we just go off on this guy as a "religious crazy" let's realize that there is an extreme religious element in the military, and it needs to be kept in check.

Welcome to Military Religious Freedom Foundation

Non-Christians in the military can face a lot of discrimination. Again, absolutely NO justification, but this is a chance to bring to light that some in the military are doing it more for GOD than God and country.
Maybe they should just be doing it for country.
 
We should continue to allow any religion to serve in any capacity in all branches, but we shouldn't be scared to take them to task when they start to act up. Nice shooting officer Munley, but I wish he'd died so he couldn't play the whiny bitch now.
 
considering we at war with two Muslim countries and Global War that many Muslims believe is a war on the entire Muslim world? I think that would be wise.

Do you believe this about all wars? Should all religions, skin color, and nationality of US soldiers be in question when we're at war with countries that hold these religions, skin colors, and nationalities?
 
Do you believe this about all wars? Should all religions, skin color, and nationality of US soldiers be in question when we're at war with countries that hold these religions, skin colors, and nationalities?
If we were at war with 2 communist countries and a global battle to combat communist terrorism - then I think that we would need to keep a closer eye on communist officers.
 
Perhaps we should just keep a closer eye on all male soldiers. It's obvious the bastards can't be trusted.
 
no, you're just trying to fabricate a cheap dig at Obama.

.

Wrong again,and you're out of touch with the majority of Americans on this.

Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting
A bad week for Democrats compounded by an awful moment for Barack Obama.
By ROBERT A. GEORGE

FACEBOOK




President Obama didn't wait long after Tuesday's devastating elections to give critics another reason to question his leadership, but this time the subject matter was more grim than a pair of governorships.

After news broke out of the shooting at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas, the nation watched in horror as the toll of dead and injured climbed. The White House was notified immediately and by late afternoon, word went out that the president would speak about the incident prior to a previously scheduled appearance. At about 5 p.m., cable stations went to the president. The situation called for not only his trademark eloquence, but also grace and perspective.

But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks.
At the event, a Tribal Nations Conference hosted by the Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian affairs, the president thanked various staffers and offered a "shout-out" to "Dr. Joe Medicine Crow -- that Congressional Medal of Honor winner." Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?
Anyone at home aware of the major news story of the previous hours had to have been stunned. An incident like this requires a scrapping of the early light banter. The president should apologize for the tone of his remarks, explain what has happened, express sympathy for those slain and appeal for calm and patience until all the facts are in. That's the least that should occur.



2009 in Memoriam

Indeed, an argument could be made that Obama should have canceled the Indian event, out of respect for people having been murdered at an Army post a few hours before. That would have prevented any sort of jarring emotional switch at the event.
Did the president's team not realize what sort of image they were presenting to the country at this moment? The disconnect between what Americans at home knew had been going on -- and the initial words coming out of their president's mouth was jolting, if not disturbing.

It must have been disappointing for many politically aware Democrats, still reeling from the election two days before. The New Jersey gubernatorial vote had already demonstrated that the president and his political team couldn't produce a winning outcome in a state very friendly to Democrats (and where the president won by 15 points one year ago). And now this? Congressional Democrats must wonder if a White House that has burdened them with a too-heavy policy agenda over the last year has a strong enough political operation to help push that agenda through.
If the president's communications apparatus can't inform -- and protect -- their boss during tense moments when the country needs to see a focused commander-in-chief and a compassionate head of state, it has disastrous consequences for that president's party and supporters.
All the president's men (and women) fell down on the job Thursday. And Democrats across the country have real reason to panic.
New York writer Robert A. George blogs at Ragged Thots. Follow him on Twitter.
 
Religion may well have a decent part to play in this shooting, it's a pity that most of those condemning Islam for religious hatred are hypocrites.
 
i didn't laugh.

it's still ultimately lifted from a blog :shrug:
.

Well you were wrong in your initial assertion, you were looking for a reason to "laugh" at this situation and it's ok if you cannot admit these facts-it speaks to your character.

Fort Hood shooting: Texas army killer linked to September 11 terrorists
Major Nidal Malik Hasan worshipped at a mosque led by a radical imam said to be a "spiritual adviser" to three of the hijackers who attacked America on Sept 11, 2001.


By Philip Sherwell and Alex Spillius
Published: 8:17PM GMT 07 Nov 2009


Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas Photo: GETTY

Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.
The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.


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Hasan's eyes "lit up" when he mentioned his deep respect for al-Awlaki's teachings, according to a fellow Muslim officer at the Fort Hood base in Texas, the scene of Thursday's horrific shooting spree.

As investigators look at Hasan's motives and mindset, his attendance at the mosque could be an important piece of the jigsaw. Al-Awlaki moved to Dar al-Hijrah as imam in January, 2001, from the west coast, and three months later the September 11 hijackers Nawaf al-Hamzi and Hani Hanjour began attending his services. A third hijacker attended his services in California.

Hasan was praying at Dar al-Hijrah at about the same time, and the FBI will now want to investigate whether he met the two terrorists.

Charles Allen, a former under-secretary for intelligence at the Department of Homeland Security, has described al-Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen, as an "al-Qaeda supporter, and former spiritual leader to three of the September 11 hijackers... who targets US Muslims with radical online lectures encouraging terrorist attacks from his new home in Yemen".

Last night Hasan remained in a coma under guard at a military hospital in San Antonio, Texas, and was said to be in a "stable" condition. Born in America to a Palestinian family, Hasan, 39, was an army psychiatrist who had chosen to sign up for the US military against his parents' wishes.

But he turned into an angry critic of the wars America was waging in Iraq and Afghanistan and had tried in vain to negotiate his discharge.
He counselled soldiers returning from the front line and told relatives that he was horrified at the prospect of a deployment to Afghanistan later this year – his first time in a combat zone.
Whether due to his personal convictions, his stress over his deployment or other reasons, Hasan is alleged to have snapped and gone on a murderous rampage with a powerful semi-automatic handgun after shouting "Allahu Akhbar" ("God is great"), according to survivors. He had earlier given away copies of the Koran to neighbours.

Investigators at this stage have no indication that he planned the attacks with anyone else. But they are trawling through his phone records, paperwork and computers he used before the attack during an apparently sleepless night.

Five of the 13 victims were fellow mental health professionals from three units of the army's Combat Stress Control Detachment, it was disclosed yesterday.
It is understood that Hasan had been due to be deployed with members of those units in coming months. Whether he deliberately singled out other combat stress counsellors is another key question.

What does seem clear is that the army missed an increasing number of red flags that Hasan was a troubled and brooding individual within its ranks.

"I was shocked but not surprised by news of Thursday's attack," said Dr Val Finnell, a fellow student on a public health course in 2007-08 who heard Hasan equate the war on terrorism to a war on Islam. Another student had warned military officials that Hasan was a "ticking time bomb" after he reportedly gave a presentation defending suicide bombers.

Kamran Pasha, the author of Mother of the Believers, a new novel relating the story of Islam from the perspective of Aisha, Prophet Mohammed's wife, was told of the al-Awlaki connection from a Muslim friend who is also an officer at Fort Hood. Using the name Richard, the recent convert to Islam described how he frequently prayed with Hasan at the town mosque after Hasan was deployed to Fort Hood in July. They last worshipped together at predawn prayers on the day of the massacre when Hasan "appeared relaxed and not in any way troubled or nervous".

But Richard had previously argued with Hasan when he said that he felt the "war on terror" was really a war against Islam, expressed anti-Jewish sentiments and defended suicide bombings.

"I asked Richard whether he believed that Hasan was motivated by religious radicalism in his murderous actions," Mr Pasha said.

"Richard, with great sadness, said that he believed this was true.

He also believed that psychological factors from Hasan's job as an army psychiatrist added to his pathos. The news that he would be deployed overseas, to a war that he rejected, may have pushed him over the edge.
"But Richard does not excuse Hasan. As a Muslim, he finds Hasan's religious perspectives to be fundamentally misguided. And as a soldier, he finds Hasan's actions cowardly and evil."

Fellow Muslims in the US armed forces have also been quick to denounce Hasan's actions and insist that they were the product of a lone individual rather than of Islamic teachings. Osman Danquah, the co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, said Hasan never expressed anger toward the army or indicated any plans for violence.
But he said that, at their second meeting, Hasan seemed almost incoherent.
"I told him, 'There's something wrong with you'. I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right."
He was sufficiently troubled that he recommended the centre reject Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood.

Hasan had, in fact, already come to the attention of the authorities before Thursday's massacre. He was suspected of being the author of internet postings that compared suicide bombers with soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save others and had also reportedly been warned about proselytising to patients.

At Fort Hood, he told a colleague, Col Terry Lee, that he believed Muslims should rise up against American "aggressors". He made no attempt to hide his desire to end his military service early or his mortification at the prospect of deployment to Afghanistan. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there," said his cousin, Nader Hasan.
Yet away from his strident attacks on US foreign policy, he came across as subdued and reclusive – not hostile or threatening. Soldiers he counselled at the Walter Reed hospital in Washington praised him, while at Fort Hood, Kimberly Kesling, the deputy commander of clinical services, remarked: "Up to this point, I would consider him an asset."
Relatives said that the death of Hasan's parents, in 1998 and 2001, turned him more devout. "After he lost his parents he tried to replace their love by reading a lot of books, including the Koran," his uncle Rafiq Hamad said.
"He didn't have a girlfriend, he didn't dance, he didn't go to bars."
His failed search for a wife seemed to haunt Hasan. At the Muslim Community Centre in the Washington suburb of Silver Spring, he signed up for an Islamic matchmaking service, specifying that he wanted a bride who wore the hijab and prayed five times a day.
Adnan Haider, a retired professor of statistics, recalled how at their first meeting last year, a casual introduction after Friday prayers, Hasan immediately asked the academic if he knew "a nice Muslim girl" he could marry.
"It was a strange thing to ask someone you have met two seconds before. It was clear to me he was under pressure, you could just see it in his face," said Prof Haider, 74, who used to work at Georgetown University in Washington. "You could see he was lonely and didn't have friends.
"He is working with psychiatric people and I ask why the people around him didn't spot that something was wrong? When I heard what had happened I actually wasn't that surprised."
Indeed, many of the characteristics attributed to Hasan by acquaintances – withdrawn, unassuming, brooding, socially awkward and never known to have had a girlfriend – have also applied to other mass murderers.
Hasan was born and brought up in Virginia to parents who ran restaurants after emigrating to America from the West Bank. He graduated from Virginia Tech university – coincidentally, the scene of the worst mass shooting in US history in 2007 – with a degree in biochemistry and then joined the army, which trained him as a psychiatrist.
Relatives said that he was subjected to increasingly ugly taunts about his religion and ethnicity from other soldiers after the September 11 attacks. But his uncle insisted yesterday that Hasan would not have been driven to mass murder by revenge or religion.
Speaking in the West Bank town of al-Bireh, Mr Hamad said his nephew "loved America" and could only have been caused to snap by an as yet unexplained factor. "He always said there was no country in the world like America," he told The Sunday Telegraph. "Something big happened to him in Texas. If he did it – and until now I am in denial – it had to have been something huge because revenge was not in his nature."
•Additional reporting by Adrian Blomfield in al-Bireh
 
What, and they weren't disturbed people?

Just because it was pre-meditated doesn't mean they weren't highly disturbed individuals.

So, in your view if you feel they're disturbed, they get a pass?
I think you're trumping the word disturbed or evil.


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All evil, all to be held accountable.
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So, Diamond, if some white, Christian, American guy decides he's had enough of immigrant non-Christians in the USA and goes to let's say a Vietnamese Buddhist temple, and shoots the place up, with his Bible in one hand, gun in the other, and wrapped in an American flag, while shouting "Jesus saves" and "USA USA", do his actions indict all of us white American guys and the entirety of Christianity worldwide? Do his actions require all of us to explain ourselves and apologize on behalf of our religion and country? I expect you would think that would be ridiculously unfair and ignorant for Vietnamese Buddhists to think that about you.

As Chris Rock hilariously stated, "Whatever happened to just plain crazy? Craaazy.". The fact is, we don't really know why this jerk did what he did. But "just plain craaazy" probably is a pretty safe bet. Or maybe he was possibly tring to impress Barack "Hussein" Obama. Did I hear that on Fox News?
 
So, in your view if you feel they're disturbed, they get a pass?

Hey, way to put words in my mouth! Nicely done. I said and meant no such thing.

Your post came across to me like you were differentiating between killers who were "disturbed" and killers who planned everything out, and I was stating that just becuase someone is disturbed doesn't mean they wouldn't have the capability to plan out their crimes.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/07/us/AP-US-Fort-Hood-Shooting.html

His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's ''anti-American propaganda,'' but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint.

I sort of suspected this would come out.

Personally, I'm not buying this... There are far too many after the fact stories or anecdotes that are coming out, if this was a university or something I MIGHT believe that this many signs went undetected, but in the military? Don't buy it.
 
Personally, I'm not buying this... There are far too many after the fact stories or anecdotes that are coming out, if this was a university or something I MIGHT believe that this many signs went undetected, but in the military? Don't buy it.

They're afraid of screwing their own careers, it happens. The military was too PC even when I got out, I'm sure it's not gotten better.
 
They're afraid of screwing their own careers, it happens. The military was too PC even when I got out, I'm sure it's not gotten better.

I think this "too PC" is just a scape goat, there are far too many stories coming out now after the fact, it doesn't make sense. If one was to honestly believe these stories, and the man was this entrenched into this mentality that he only let it slip in front of his students or those below his rank?
 
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