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Old 11-11-2009, 12:42 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Torture no.

And Mormons help out more Muslims countries then you'll ever care to learn about.

And Mormons love Gays, while some Muslims torture and kill them, but go ahead and disparage the Mormons, and defend this Muslim
who based on his recent behavior hated Gays as well.

By their fruits you shall know them.


<>
The majority of Mormons I have met (and I'm from a state with more Mormons than most states) are homophobic. Just sayin'. Oh and as a Muslim, I always sympathized with Mormons because . . . No drinking, have a prophet all of your own that people outside of your religion widely discredit, misunderstood by many? Despite the differences, LDS and Islam have a bit in common. More so than other Christian sects.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle View Post
Iff some white, Christian, American guy decides he's had enough of immigrant non-Christians in the USA and goes to let's say a Vietnamese Buddhist temple, and shoots the place up, with his Bible in one hand, gun in the other, and wrapped in an American flag, while shouting "Jesus saves" and "USA USA", do his actions indict all of us white American guys and the entirety of Christianity worldwide? Do his actions require all of us to explain ourselves and apologize on behalf of our religion and country? I expect you would think that would be ridiculously unfair and ignorant for Vietnamese Buddhists to think that about you.
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
If it turns out that religion was indeed the motivation for this (and I did already say "it doesn't look good on that front," so throwing a list at me wasn't really necessary), my heart breaks for all the Muslims in America who now have another "bad one" representing them.

The man is the enemy because he attacked and killed his fellow soldiers. Regardless of his motivation.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:51 AM   #182
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I do not feel it is left or right. I fear that management, for some reason, does not act efficiently. I wonder how much has to do with fear of lawyers. I have seen it in my field...others in here have seen it in the military currently.
Probably right, then also there's the consideration mentioned in the NYT article Hyper linked to earlier:
Quote:
Hasan received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, according to an official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly. And while he was an intern at the suburban Washington hospital, Hasan had some ''difficulties'' that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.

Hasan was promoted from captain to major in 2008, the same year he graduated from the master's program. Bernard Rostker, a military personnel expert at the Rand Corp., said Hasan's advancement was all but certain absent a serious blemish on his record, such as a DUI or a drug charge. ''We're short of officers, particularly at the major and lieutenant colonel level because of the war, and we're short of psychiatrists,'' said Rostker, who served as under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness during the Clinton administration. ''There would have had to be something very detrimental in his record before there would have been a banner that would have said, 'No, we don't want to promote him.'''

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Should some Muslims in key positions with tons of authority be watched a little more closely considering we at war with two Muslim countries and Global War that many Muslims believe is a war on the entire Muslim world? I think that would be wise.
I don't think this is the right conclusion at all. Though any serviceperson known to be expressing opinions suggesting support for violence against fellow troops (or fellow Americans) ought to be "watched a little more closely" for sure.

Again from the article Hyper linked to:
Quote:
''I told him, `There's something wrong with you,''' Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, told The Associated Press on Saturday. ''I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right.''
.................................................
Twice this summer, Danquah said, Hasan asked him what to tell soldiers who expressed misgivings about fighting fellow Muslims. Danquah, a retired Army first sergeant and Gulf War veteran, said he reminded Hasan that these soldiers had volunteered to fight, and that Muslims were fighting against each other in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Palestinian territories.

''But what if a person gets in and feels that it's just not right?'' Danquah recalled Hasan asking him.

''I'd give him my response. It didn't seem settled, you know. It didn't seem to satisfy,'' he said. ''It would be like a person playing the devil's advocate. ... I said, `Look. I'm not impressed by you.''' Danquah said he was so disturbed by Hasan's persistent questioning that he recommended the mosque reject Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood.
Similarly, from the NYT article Irvine linked to:
Quote:
[Hasan] invited Osman Danquah, the co-founder of the mosque, to dinner at Ryan’s restaurant and asked him how he should counsel young Muslim soldiers who might have objections to the wars. Mr. Danquah, a retired sergeant and a veteran of the Persian Gulf war, told him that the soldiers had no excuse since it was a volunteer Army and that they could always file as conscientious objectors.

“I got the impression he was trying to validate how he was dealing with it,” Mr. Danquah said.

By contrast, how did Hasan's supervisors in the Army respond? From the WaPo article Irvine linked to:
Quote:
As a senior-year psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic of his choosing as a culminating exercise of the residency program. Instead, in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," he said in the presentation.
...............................................
The title of Hasan's PowerPoint presentation was "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military." It consisted of 50 slides. In one slide, Hasan described the presentation's objectives as identifying "what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military." He also sought to "describe the nature of the religious conflicts that Muslims" who serve in the U.S. military may have and to persuade the Army to identify these individuals. Other slides delved into the history of Islam, its tenets, statistics about the number of Muslims in the military, and explanations of "offensive jihad," or holy war.

Another slide suggested ways to draw out Muslim troops: "It must be hard for you to balance Islamic beliefs that might be conflicting with current war; feelings of guilt; Is it what you expected."
....................................................
The final three slides indicate that Hasan referred to Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, suicide bombers and Iran. Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic] The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

Under the "Conclusions" page, Hasan wrote that "Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam," and that "Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly -- will vary!"
Danquah recognized that Hasan's "misgivings" couldn't reasonably be argued to be mandated by his religion; that his faith imposed no imperatives on him nor on other Muslim servicepeople to leave the military (let alone to kill fellow soldiers); and that any personal moral unwillingness on Hasan's part to continue in the Army was Hasan's responsibility alone to act upon and accept the consequences of (through conscientious objection). Why didn't Hasan's own Army supervisors grasp these things, and therefore recognize his 'counseling suggestions for Muslim servicepersons' as projection--and a red flag of dangerous inner turmoil in Hasan himself? To suggest that mere religious affiliation is the relevant warning sign here is actually to buy into Hasan's line of thinking.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:03 AM   #183
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Happy Veterans Day, hug a Muslim.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:25 AM   #184
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...or perhaps try something sincere, like volunteering a day of your time to USO.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:32 AM   #185
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Well since I can't have a sig about one of my sincere causes.


Marine Toys for Tots Foundation
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:31 AM   #186
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...or perhaps try something sincere, like volunteering a day of your time to USO.

I'm impressed...
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:33 AM   #187
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Well since I can't have a sig about one of my sincere causes.


Marine Toys for Tots Foundation

One of the best charities out there. I'm not a Marine, but my dad and uncles were Marines in Vietnam.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:35 AM   #188
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One of the best charities out there. I'm not a Marine, but my dad and uncles were Marines in Vietnam.
Excellent. I'll be sharing a beer with a Vietnam Marine tonight. More because it's a Wednesday than because of Veterans Day though.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:58 AM   #189
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Killed

Michael Grant Cahill, 62, of Spokane, Wash., was a physician's assistant who was working on the post as a contracted civilian

Reservist John Gaffaney, 56, of Sierra Messa, Calif.

Spc. Jason Dean Hunt, 22, of Tipton, Okla.

Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29, of Kiel, Wis.

Aaron Thomas Nemelka,19, of West Jordan, Utah, was killed.

Michael Pearson, 21, of Bolingbrook, Il.

Russel Seager, 51,of Racine, Wis.

Francheska Velez, 21, of Chicago. She was pregnant.

Spc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn.



Wounded

Amber Bahr, 19, of Random Lake, Wis., was shot in the stomach.

Keara Bono, 21, of Independence, Mo., was shot in the back left shoulder.

Alan Carroll, 20, of Bridgewater, N.J., was shot three times.

Dorothy "Dorrie" Carskadon of Rockford, Ill., was critically injured.

Staff Sgt. Joy Clark, 27, of Des Moines suffered a gunshot wound

Spc. Matthew Cook, 30, of Binghamton, N.Y., was shot in the abdomen

Pvt. Joey Foster, 21, of Ogden, Utah, was shot in the hip

Nathan Hewitt of West Lafayette, Ind.

Justin Johnson, 21, of Punta Gorda, Fla., was shot in the chest and leg.

Staff. Sgt. Alonzo Lunsford, of Richmond County, N.C., was shot multiple times.

Reserve Spc. Grant Moxon, 23, of Lodi, Wis., was shot in the leg.

Kimberly Munley of Killeen is the Fort Hood civilian police officer who was shot multiple times by the suspect.

Maj. Randy Royer of Dothan, Ala., was shot.

Pvt. Raymondo "Ray" Saucedo, 26, of Greenville, Mich., had a bullet graze his arm.

George Stratton III, 18, of Post Falls, Idaho, was shot in the shoulder.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:57 AM   #190
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Happy Veterans Day, hug a Muslim.
Wow. Classy.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:59 AM   #191
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They need your support in these trying times.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:03 PM   #192
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Wow. Classy.
Anyone else notice the word classy contains the word ass?

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Old 11-11-2009, 12:10 PM   #193
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Nice cuntribution.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:19 PM   #194
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Knock it off
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:20 PM   #195
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I thought we were playing word find.
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