Forget MLK's Dream: It Seems We Can't Throw Our Crayons Away

[martha]

I'm such a socialist/fascist fuck-up.

 

[Irvine511]

I'm such a socialist/fascist fuck-up.

the only way we'll ever be truly colorblind is if we keep saying, "i don't even notice people's race. someone has to point it out to me."

because black people (or asians, or women, or gays) will forget if you stop reminding them that they are.

and then we'll truly be living MLK's dream.

the end.

 

[martha]

It all sounds so easy when you explain it that way.

Y'know, for a gay guy, you're pretty smart.

 

[Irvine511]

Y'know, for a gay guy, you're pretty smart.

and you're surprisingly agreeable to logic, for a woman.

 

[martha]

 

[2861U2]

You and others were asked and never did we hear an answer, why did you start protesting after Obama won when Bush was doing the same thing that you claim the protests are about?

Looking back, the people who call themselves conservatives but didn't voice opposition to some of Bush's spending definitely should have, I'll admit. Myself included. But for God's sake, you can't just dismiss the fact they're NOW protesting as "well, they're just doing it because he's black." And come on, BVS, Obama is not "doing the same thing" as Bush. The spending by Bush is nowhere near what Obama is doing. Plus the fact that he has all these radical associations and dozens of czars is why people are protesting. And where are people like you, who complained about the deficits Bush was creating, but who are fairly silent today?

that you would never, ever give the anti-war protesters even a second of this kind of consideration?

Can you be more specific? Are you referring to the absolutely insane, hateful, extreme protesters that showed up? Because I would never clump them in with the peaceful, regular anti-war protesters, if that's what you mean.

What you're missing is what we've all been waiting for: Some Republican leadership.

Where are the reasonable Republicans leading the conservatives in a reasonable opposition to Obama?

You're obviously not looking hard enough then. First off, when you're the minority party, you're always going to have somewhat of a lack of leadership. Second, people like Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, Huckabee, Cantor, and others are all over the TV shows, doing nothing but talking about opposition to Obama's policies. Can you believe that? Not a mention of his skin color! They must not be true conservatives.

 

[martha]

You're obviously not looking hard enough then. First off, when you're the minority party, you're always going to have somewhat of a lack of leadership. Second, people like Gingrich, Pawlenty, Romney, Huckabee, Cantor, and others are all over the TV shows, doing nothing but talking about opposition to Obama's policies.

That would explain it; I don't watch TV.

Can you believe that? Not a mention of his skin color! They must not be true conservatives.

Do they repudiate the protesters? Or do they support them? Because, like it or not, most of the protesters I've seen have had some serious issues with a black president. And so have a few of the "leaders."

 

[BVS]

Looking back, the people who call themselves conservatives but didn't voice opposition to some of Bush's spending definitely should have, I'll admit. Myself included. But for God's sake, you can't just dismiss the fact they're NOW protesting as "well, they're just doing it because he's black."

Once again, no one is saying it's only because he's black, but it is an underlying factor. I honestly think if it was a white Dem you couldn't get nearly the amount of protestors, it wouldn't even be big enough to call a "movement".

And come on, BVS, Obama is not "doing the same thing" as Bush. The spending by Bush is nowhere near what Obama is doing. Plus the fact that he has all these radical associations and dozens of czars is why people are protesting. And where are people like you, who complained about the deficits Bush was creating, but who are fairly silent today?

How much have we spent so far on a war that we shouldn't have been in, that lasted far too long, and it isn't producing results? And how much has Obama ACTUALLY spent? I'm pretty sure you don't have those numbers because that's not how Rush and Hannity have packaged it up for you.

You're protesting because he has czars? How many did Reagan have?

 

[martha]

How many did Reagan have?

And how big was Reagan's deficit?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

How many did Reagan have?

Or Bush? The idiocy of the czar thing is hilarious.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/dancing-with-the-czars-de_n_289465.html

 

[Irvine511]

Or Bush? The idiocy of the czar thing is hilarious.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/16/dancing-with-the-czars-de_n_289465.html

i had a friend who posted on his facebook, in response to a sign that said "OBAMA: MORE CZARS THAN THE USSR" -- "hey, asshole, maybe if you spent more time studying in high school and less time calling me a faggot you'd know that the USSR didn't have any czars."

 

[bigjohn2441]

i had a friend who posted on his facebook, in response to a sign that said "OBAMA: MORE CZARS THAN THE USSR" -- "hey, asshole, maybe if you spent more time studying in high school and less time calling me a faggot you'd know that the USSR didn't have any czars."

 

[2861U2]

If someone isn't racist would they really want to hold a racist sign at their tea party? Or participate with others who are holding such signs ? Of course all of the signs aren't racist but a good deal of them are. If you're not racist then you should be ashamed of those signs and refuse to participate unless the demonstration is elevated to a higher level.

I assume you said this same thing about Obama when the Rev. Wright story broke. And I also assume you're constantly asking this of all the Democratic Senators who choose to be in the company of Robert "KKK" Byrd.

 

[BVS]

I assume you said this same thing about Obama when the Rev. Wright story broke.

Actually I did. I'm glad he distanced himself from Wright, even if it was late. I'm still waiting for the "non-racists" to distance themselves from Rush, but it seems like I'll be waiting for awhile.

And I also assume you're constantly asking this of all the Democratic Senators who choose to be in the company of Robert "KKK" Byrd.

He's distanced himself, why haven't you?

 

[Irvine511]

I assume you said this same thing about Obama when the Rev. Wright story broke. And I also assume you're constantly asking this of all the Democratic Senators who choose to be in the company of Robert "KKK" Byrd.

do you still listen to Rush "Racist" Limbaugh?

 

[INDY500]

That would explain it; I don't watch TV.

most of the protesters I've seen have had some serious issues with a black president.

So if not TV, where exactly are you getting your images of these protesters? Maybe from sources going out of their way to distort them as "most of the protesters" rather than the small minority they actually represent?

Or are you simply predisposed to the notion that America is inherently a racist country and subsequently only notice those images that reinforce and confirm that believe?

 

[BVS]

And where are you getting your sources letting you know they are a minority? Because I know for damn sure that conservative outlets are distorting their images to make sure the overt racist signs and sentiments don't exist and no one seems to notice the "subtle" racism on these outlets.

 

[Irvine511]

So if not TV, where exactly are you getting your images of these protesters? Maybe from sources going out of their way to distort them as "most of the protesters" rather than the small minority they actually represent?

Or are you simply predisposed to the notion that America is inherently a racist country and subsequently only notice those images that reinforce and confirm that believe?

i will go to the next one in DC and report back. i couldn't attend the last one. i love protests. i go whenever i can to people watch. it's never less than fascinating.

however, given the general nature of the protests themselves -- taxes are bad! illegal immigrants are bad! insurance companies are good -- i am more inclined to believe that your average demonstrator probably doesn't have a terribly sophisticated grasp on many of these issues, to start, and, as well, many of these concerns have been racialized to quite an extent by the GOP pundits -- akin to the clearly racialized language of the "welfare Queen" of the 1980s -- that i think part of the appeal that would draw one to DC to protest something like health care reform (as opposed to, say, a war in the Middle East where tens of thousands and more were going to die) would be to vent racialized tensions.

it's never so cut-and-clear as, "i'm a racist, so therefore i hate Obama."

 

[Irvine511]

no one seems to notice the "subtle" racism on these outlets.

note the outrage -- the outrage! -- over Rev. Wright, and then compare that to an average night on the Glenn Beck program.

a black man could never, ever, get away with the amount of anger and resentment and paranoia that these white men get away with every night on Fox.

 

[bigjohn2441]

a black man could never, ever, get away with the amount of anger and resentment and paranoia that these white men get away with every night on Fox.

yeah, look at kanye west

 

[dazzledbylight]

The only thing different between Glen Beck and his ilk is they no longer have to wear the white hoods. Unfortunately, they have TV.
I'm not sure Beck and others have the sense to even know what they are perpetrating. Or maybe they do.
President Obama is in danger from one/many of the original home grown terrorist groups.

Its horrifying and .....
that's why a lot of folks keep praying for him & his family in that way as well as for him to be strong & as wise as he can be as presdient.

and some of us also surround him & them with white protective light....

 

[Irvine511]

yeah, look at kanye west

this proves the point.

*everyone* echoed what a jackass Kanye was and he was shamed by Leno.

 

[dazzledbylight]

I'm sure there must be some. But who is honestly taking them seriously?

I don't like the tea crowd very much either. There's a lot of ignorance going on over there and not a lot of thinking. But to jump to conclusions and start calling them all out to be racists is just stooping to their level. Does name calling really take us anywhere?

By being so paranoid about the race issue, we are only prolonging it.

If things like -- the still current major discrepancies between balck & white people....

Test cases with rentals & house buying still show even last year a white couple & a black couple with the same stable and well paying type of created jobs resume job & other good personal history -- the black couple STILL gets rejects much of the time more than the white couple.....

A white High School Graduate with a criminal record
will still get hired more THAN a black College Graduate with NO criminal record....

there re still medical care descrepancies but i don't remember the specifies I red earlier this year.

One of the hopeful notes is that some more white people in their 20's & 30's do seem to be more comfortable with Afro-Americans than those in their 40's up....
that is good.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Racist, like all other walks of life come in subtle packages as well.

unfortunatley that is true as well.....

 

[dazzledbylight]

note the outrage -- the outrage! -- over Rev. Wright, and then compare that to an average night on the Glenn Beck program.

a black man could never, ever, get away with the amount of anger and resentment and paranoia that these white men get away with every night on Fox.

hoooooo boy tht's true!

Unfortunately i don't remember the name but a particular black individual a professional of some kind whether in academia or some oher area that I know of/heard on radio/read articles etc that I trust who has attended Rev Wright's church said The Rev rarely went on like that.

And being the age Rev Wright is--- he's lived through some of the worst of 20 century racism.

The USA is a very complex country with it's ideals written into law, and expanded over time-- along with it's major contradictions, and atrocities that happened, and sometimes sill exist.

I just try to keep making the USA a better country in the ways I can.

 

[Bluer White]

Or are you simply predisposed to the notion that America is inherently a racist country and subsequently only notice those images that reinforce and confirm that believe?

Let the Racers say their piece.

It's a loser.

 

[Got Philk?]

the only way we'll ever be truly colorblind is if we keep saying, "i don't even notice people's race. someone has to point it out to me."

because black people (or asians, or women, or gays) will forget if you stop reminding them that they are.

and then we'll truly be living MLK's dream.

the end.

I'm hung up on this comment. I agree that all races are equal and should be treated as so (as well as women and gays). However, my pause comes when I think of how beautiful our world is because of all our differences.

Specifically in this thread's case, is it wrong to have pride in your ethnicity? Instead of ignoring our differences, can't we celebrate them?

Forgive me for lurking and posting.

 

[martha]

So if not TV, where exactly are you getting your images of these protesters? Maybe from sources going out of their way to distort them as "most of the protesters" rather than the small minority they actually represent?

Un, newspapers? You remember them.

Or are you simply predisposed to the notion that America is inherently a racist country and subsequently only notice those images that reinforce and confirm that believe?

Of course. That's it exactly.

 

[Pearl]

I'm hung up on this comment. I agree that all races are equal and should be treated as so (as well as women and gays). However, my pause comes when I think of how beautiful our world is because of all our differences.

Specifically in this thread's case, is it wrong to have pride in your ethnicity? Instead of ignoring our differences, can't we celebrate them?

Forgive me for lurking and posting.

I agree with you, Got Philk. I see nothing wrong with having pride in your ethnicity. I believe everyone - white, black, Latino, etc. - should be proud of where they come from, and freely celebrate it.

I say this because I've noticed a bias when some people say we should celebrate each other's differences. For example, if minorities were celebrating their heritage, that's fine. But if, say, it was St. Patrick's Day and people of Irish decent (like me) were happily displaying their pride for being Irish, some people would think that is wrong, it shouldn't be done, etc.

I mean, if you believe everyone should be proud if their heritage, you should mean everyone! Practice what you preach!

 

[financeguy]

But if, say, it was St. Patrick's Day and people of Irish decent (like me) were happily displaying their pride for being Irish, some people would think that is wrong, it shouldn't be done, etc.

Who has said this?