First "War on Xmas" Thread - We have a winner !

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It took them till the 2nd? They're getting slow...

These people are really so clueless they aren't even a waste of my time.
 
buttars is anti-gay? i thought he was just bi-confused.


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Christian nation is obviously wrong. America is, like European countries, a secular state with a majority of its population being Christian.

Nevertheless, I find the substitution of Christmas with Season's Greetings and other generic terms quite ridiculous. I don't know of any non-Christian who takes offense at hearing the word Christmas in any context, nor one who honestly thinks any person would use that on purpose in order to offend or missionize him.
 
Vincent Vega said:
Christian nation is obviously wrong. America is, like European countries, a secular state with a majority of its population being Christian.

Nevertheless, I find the substitution of Christmas with Season's Greetings and other generic terms quite ridiculous. I don't know of any non-Christian who takes offense at hearing the word Christmas in any context, nor one who honestly thinks any person would use that on purpose in order to offend or missionize him.
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As an atheist, I have no problem whatsoever with "Merry Christmas", I say it myself. I think "Happy Holidays" is a crock overly politically-correct, however I have a bigger issue with the bigots and politicians who spend their time worrying about this, have they nothing better to do ?
 
I'm agnostic as well, but never cared for that term in any way. We also celebrate Christmas at home. It's just a nice holiday.
Trying to be politically correct sometimes tends to take extremes which are very ridiculous. And furthermore, I see it as a sign of tolerance to accept Merry Christmas, just like no one should worry about saying Happy Chanukah.

I don't particularly find it disturbing when politicians question this form of political correctness, but their reasoning, like displayed in this case, often is as weird and wrong.
 
Vincent Vega said:
I don't know of any non-Christian who takes offense at hearing the word Christmas in any context, nor one who honestly thinks any person would use that on purpose in order to offend or missionize him.
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I've known quite a few people who are offended by the mere mention of the word "Christmas", not to mention the songs and decorations. Why, I'll never know. I think its bigotry on their part. I mean, it doesn't bother me when I hear the word Chanukah or Ramadan, or any other religious holiday. I do think the holiday season should incorporate all the religious holidays so no one would feel left out, rather than banning or secularizing anything Christmas related.
 
I can understand their wariness, because I've seen Christians prolythesize (sp?) during this time of year. But to be completely offended? I think that's taking wariness too far.
 
Vincent Vega said:
I would be interested in their reasoning for being offended.
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I used to work with a guy who insisted on working on Xmas day because he was Jewish and it wasn't "his" holiday - Told him he was an idiot, just take all the days off you get ! I'd gladly take one for Ramadan, Hanukkah, Canadian Thanksgiving, Buddha's birthday, whatever.

When I say "Merry Christmas" I mean it as "I hope you enjoy the day you get off work and use to exchange gifts with your family, and if you don't exchange gifts or celebrate it in any way, then I hope you still have an enjoyable day on that day". Merry Xmas is just a lot shorter !

You don't have to be American of European descent to enjoy Thanksgiving or say 'Happy Thanksgiving', you don't have to be an ex-union member to enjoy Labor day, and you certainly don't need to be a Christian to say/hear "Merry Xmas" without getting bent out of shape.
 
I am put off by the culture warriors in general and I think this is one of the more laughable topics but the people who are so deeply offended at Christmas in non-State matters piss me off just as much.

I for one, have argued that Christians should steal back their religious holiday from the consumerists. It meant more to me as a religious holiday when I was a Christian. As it stands right now, our culture is pretty much 100% behind Christmas as a holiday for retailers as it is. How could anyone take the 'War on Christmas' seriously, when the people who champion it are just as bad as everyone else when it comes to sheer materialism.
 
When people get annoyed by it, it's usually precisely because it's become politicized. I don't personally know any Jews, Muslims or what-have-you who go around snarking back at people who wish them "Merry Christmas;" on the other hand, in the course of working retail for a decade I did encounter the reverse a few times--people jumping down my throat for smiling and saying "Have a great holiday," which was my standard closer (with strangers).

If you don't want people frothing at the mouth because you said "Happy Holidays," then practice what you preach by not freaking out when they say "Merry Christmas"--likewise, if it ticks you off when people get snotty over "Merry Christmas," then put your money where your mouth is by graciously accepting "Happy Holidays" as the sincere expression of goodwill it's intended to be. It's when people get into the mindset that they 'deserve' to be feted with some particular phrasing, and that others--even complete strangers--somehow owe that to them, that you get problems.
 
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U2DMfan said:
I for one, have argued that Christians should steal back their religious holiday from the consumerists. It meant more to me as a religious holiday when I was a Christian. As it stands right now, our culture is pretty much 100% behind Christmas as a holiday for retailers as it is. How could anyone take the 'War on Christmas' seriously, when the people who champion it are just as bad as everyone else when it comes to sheer materialism.
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I agree :yes:
 
Vincent Vega said:
Nevertheless, I find the substitution of Christmas with Season's Greetings and other generic terms quite ridiculous. I don't know of any non-Christian who takes offense at hearing the word Christmas in any context, nor one who honestly thinks any person would use that on purpose in order to offend or missionize him.
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I'm Christian and I don't find using Season's Greetings or Happy Holidays as ridiculous. There are other holidays being celebrated during that time as well, to me telling everyone that walks into the door of your store "Merry Christmas" is just arrogantly saying only my holiday counts. Those that I know are Christians I say Merry Christmas to, those that I don't know I say Happy Holidays, it just seems like common courtesy to me.

If nutjobs really wanted to fight the war on Christmas fight the commercialization of the holiday, not the fact that some are acknowleding that other holidays exist.

This is exactly why evengelicals look so ridiculous they fight the fights that won't effect them, they never fight the difficult ones. They defend marriage by picking on the minority instead of looking at the huge divorce rate within their own church. They defend Christmas by bitching about the decorations or what's said at a store greeting but ignore the fact that walking into a store to buy your child an iPod is not what Christmas is...
 
as a rule, i wish people a Happy Holiday.

i would never say "Merry Christmas" to acquaintances or even coworkers. it's only when i know for certain that someone is going to be celebrating Christmas and i know them well that i might say "Merry Christmas," and that would only usually be on December 24 or 25th.

"Happy Holidays" is a sincere, universal expression of good will towards everyone, it excludes no one, and it's a recognition that it is a special time of year, and you hope that everyone has a good experience. December is much more than just Christmas, and by insisting, as some do, that "Happy Holidays" is an assault on their faith is evidence of an ill-deserved persecution complex.

not everyone celebrates your holiday. not everyone likes christmas. please, think of someone other than yourself. simply because the rest of the world doesn't affirm your every word, thought, and action isn't proof that you're somehow discriminated against or that it's political correctness run amok.

it's common courtesy.

be polite.
 
I say Merry Christmas - but then I'd say Happy Hanukah and Happy Diwali too. I'm not religious in the slightest, but would rather acknowledge other peoples religious holidays than not at all.
 
toscano said:
As an atheist, I have no problem whatsoever with "Merry Christmas", I say it myself. I think "Happy Holidays" is a crock overly politically-correct, however I have a bigger issue with the bigots and politicians who spend their time worrying about this, have they nothing better to do ?
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:up: Well put.

People can greet others during the holiday season however they please. Honestly, why should I be offended if someone feels that "Happy Holidays" fits the way they celebrate the winter holidays more appropriately? Furthermore, any one greeting being somehow "enforced" or even "encouraged" by the state would sufficiently qualify as a crock.

I say "Merry Christmas" because I believe in Christ. That's it. If you don't, you shouldn't have your hands tied.
 
Well, it might be the higher importance of religion in the US, or the greater likelihood that your counterpart is not a Christian and hence not celebrating Christmas. I don't know. For me it's just weird to make such a fuss over it.

Happy Holidays as substitution at least sounds okay, but I couldn't use Season's Greetings with a straight face.

All the time I grew up Christmas never seemed a religious holiday at all. People needed to be reminded of its roots. I guess that's just the way this holiday went. Even non-Christians celebrate it. A Japanese I study with told me that many families in Japan celebrate Christmas although they are not religious. To me Christmas has sort of grown out of Christianity and more or less stands on its own.
And if the vast majority celebrates a certain holiday I don't see using that greeting in general. Like I said before, it's not meant to offend anyone or showing him which holiday is superior. Would you stop using Happy New Year's only because for many the night from the 31st of December to the 1st of January is not their New Year's?
 
"Season's Greetings" is primarily reserved for written exchanges; it's not common to hear people say it in casual conversation.

I can't personally think of any cultural or religious minorities in the US who collectively and on principle don't observe 'New Year's Day' on January 1, though of course many do also observe a second New Year's at some other time of year in accordance with their ancestral culture's or religion's traditional calendar. Christmas, by contrast, is perceived by some religious minority groups (and also by practicing Christians, of course) as an essentially Christian holiday commemorating the birth of Christ, and therefore those groups don't observe it. So the two holidays aren't really comparable in that way.
 
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Do we really need a thread like this each december? If you don't like the way people are wishing you happiness, maybe you don't deserve it. :lol:
 
DrTeeth said:
If you don't like the way people are wishing you happiness, maybe you don't deserve it. :lol:
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I seem to recall "Bah humbug" being my sarcastic parting expression of resigned exasperation with the overblown-epic-saga-of-a-thread on this topic that most of us probably recall from a few years back. :wink: If I didn't say it, I was certainly thinking it...
 
yolland said:
"Season's Greetings" is primarily reserved for written exchanges; it's not common to hear people say it in casual conversation.

I can't personally think of any cultural or religious minorities in the US who collectively and on principle don't observe 'New Year's Day' on January 1, though of course many do also observe a second New Year's at some other time of year in accordance with their ancestral culture's or religion's traditional calendar. Christmas, by contrast, is perceived by some religious minority groups (and also by practicing Christians, of course) as an essentially Christian holiday commemorating the birth of Christ, and therefore those groups don't observe it. So the two holidays aren't really comparable in that way.
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Yeah, that's a difference. With New Year's everyone accepted our calendar.
I feel a little relieved that Season's Greetings is only for written exchanges.
I guess it's a different culture where there is much more meaning being put into the greeting, whereas in Germany no one cares. "Frohe Weihnachten und einen guten Rutsch" (Merry Christmas and a happy New Year) are used everywhere and by everyone, and I've never heard anyone complain. But as I said, the religious aspect of the holiday has pretty much vanished.
 
yolland said:
"Season's Greetings" is primarily reserved for written exchanges; it's not common to hear people say it in casual conversation.

I can't personally think of any cultural or religious minorities in the US who collectively and on principle don't observe 'New Year's Day' on January 1, though of course many do also observe a second New Year's at some other time of year in accordance with their ancestral culture's or religion's traditional calendar. Christmas, by contrast, is perceived by some religious minority groups (and also by practicing Christians, of course) as an essentially Christian holiday commemorating the birth of Christ, and therefore those groups don't observe it. So the two holidays aren't really comparable in that way.
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As someone who spends a lot of time in Asia, and around asians, I know that "our" New Year's is not that big a deal, their big one is Lunar New Year.

Also, Iranians have their own in Mid-March.
 
Right, but as she said those that live in the US celebrate the western New Year's just as they celebrate their respective ones.
 
Vincent Vega said:
Right, but as she said those that live in the US celebrate the western New Year's just as they celebrate their respective ones.
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Not to close to the same extent. They are much more into theor own than they are the Western one.

I spent a Xmas in Hong Kong once, lots of non-Christians saying "Merry Christmas" to each other.

To most people, Merry Christmas is a Holiday greeting first and foremost.
 
toscano said:
Not to close to the same extent. They are much more into theor own than they are the Western one.

I spent a Xmas in Hong Kong once, lots of non-Christians saying "Merry Christmas" to each other.

To most people, Merry Christmas is a Holiday greeting first and foremost.
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That's the way I've seen it all the time either. I guess that's why I don't quite understand the fuss over it and the need to cancel that out of the public eye/nose.
 
Vincent Vega said:
That's the way I've seen it all the time either. I guess that's why I don't quite understand the fuss over it and the need to cancel that out of the public eye/nose.
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As BVS said, it gives the LDS/Evangelical bigots something easy to fight about rather than face the more important issues.
 
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