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Old 12-03-2008, 06:38 PM   #46
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It also helps that Christmas is a federal holiday - but I'll gladly be "obtusely arrogant" when it comes to saying Merry Christmas.
What does that help exactly?

I just don't understand this pride some of you take in telling a Jewish person, Muslim person, or any non-believer "Merry Christmas". I just don't get it. It seems to be the very opposite of the spirit of the season, to shove something in one's face. I'm sure Jesus is proud...

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I wonder if the Happy Holiday crowd refers to the Super Bowl as the "Big Game" so they don't violate the trademark of the NFL.
Wow, that doesn't even come close to being a related analogy.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:40 PM   #47
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I just don't understand this pride some of you take in telling a Jewish person, Muslim person, or any non-believer "Merry Christmas".


this is what baffles me as well. why the insistence?

is this one of those things where some Christians are determined not to sit on the back of the bus in December?
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:41 PM   #48
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just be polite, people.
Baby Jesus wouldn't want that. Baby Jesus wants us to sue to get more Christmas decorations up, he loves the commercialization. Baby Jesus wants us to be arrogant and prideful. Baby Jesus wants us the cosume consume consume, all in his name.

Humility and politeness would make baby Jesus cry.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:42 PM   #49
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Christmas is a marker, like other holidays, Happy Christmas is equivalent to saying Happy [Insert Secular Patriotic Day Here], I have no issue saying it, and I don't care if people want to burden themselves with the etiquette of celebratory nomenclature.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:43 PM   #50
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Merry Christmas FYM, I hope we can all embrace this ancient pagan festival.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:47 PM   #51
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This thread reminded me of Foamy's Christmas episode. This is a PG-13 sort of cartoon...fair bit of strong language in it.

YouTube - Foamy - No christmas for you
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:49 PM   #52
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Christmas is a marker, like other holidays, Happy Christmas is equivalent to saying Happy [Insert Secular Patriotic Day Here], I have no issue saying it, and I don't care if people want to burden themselves with the etiquette of celebratory nomenclature.


but secular patriotic day can be casually assumed to be celebrated by all citizens of secular patriotic country. though christmas can easily be celebrated in a very secular fashion, there is an exclusionary religious component that really can't be ignored. while i've known certain hindus who have did a small christmas with stockings and trees and presents, many non-christians simply go to the movies and get chinese food on december 25th. they do not celebrate the holiday.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:00 PM   #53
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I'm "polite", I only say Merry Christmas to people that I know for sure celebrate Christmas (or maybe to someone I am close enough to to know that they wouldn't have any issue with it). If I give a gift to someone maybe I would say in the note/card "Merry Christmas" as a general gesture of goodwill, but not if I thought it might be insensitive or offend or would obviously do either or both. There are plenty of Christians who feel the same way and who don't want to shove anything on anybody. All I ask is that others respect my beliefs in a similarly polite way.

It doesn't take anything away from how I feel about Christmas and/or what it means to me or from how I celebrate it to say something like "Happy Holidays".
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:11 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
I just don't understand this pride some of you take in telling a Jewish person, Muslim person, or any non-believer "Merry Christmas". I just don't get it. It seems to be the very opposite of the spirit of the season, to shove something in one's face. I'm sure Jesus is proud...
I would agree with this on principle, although I've never actually seen a similar case pop up in real life. Furthermore, Christmas has become so secularized and commercial that I wouldn't even refer to it as a religious holiday, which is a big reason why the intensity of this debate baffles me so.

"Merry Christmas" is the default greeting because the majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and only Christmas. Personally, I find using "Happy Holidays" as a means of avoiding possible tension to be incredibly patronizing. It's as if I'm not mature enough to handle the thought of someone else celebrating a different holiday. Now, of course, I'm not one of the minority, so perhaps I just can't relate. Regardless, I've never seen a case where somebody walked up to a Jewish acquaintance of theirs and said "Hey, loser, how's that dreidel spinning coming along? Prepare to get stomped by CHRISTMAS. Fuck yeah!" Nor can I imagine someone seething with hatred because someone they never met gave them the wrong greeting. Your heart is in the right place, but I think a large quantity of exaggeration and a certain lack of faith in humanity is present here.

For the record, if I was chatting with someone Jewish or Muslim, I would greet them accordingly. But if it's just some guy on the street, I feel no need to go out of my way. And until some anonymous disgruntled fellow in the Wal-Mart parking lot grills me about it one day, I will continue this practice. And I don't feel it's insensitive at all. Quite logical, in fact.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:33 PM   #55
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I would agree with this on principle, although I've never actually seen a similar case pop up in real life. Furthermore, Christmas has become so secularized and commercial that I wouldn't even refer to it as a religious holiday, which is a big reason why the intensity of this debate baffles me so.
Well if it's so secular, why the war on Christmas to begin with? Otherwords, if you honestly think it's a secular term now, then why would you get up in arms when you don't see it in a store window, etc... I think this argument is trying to have it both ways. Especially when you are talking about nativity scenes on courthouse yards, nothings secular about that...
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Regardless, I've never seen a case where somebody walked up to a Jewish acquaintance of theirs and said "Hey, loser, how's that dreidel spinning coming along? Prepare to get stomped by CHRISTMAS. Fuck yeah!" Nor can I imagine someone seething with hatred because someone they never met gave them the wrong greeting. Your heart is in the right place, but I think a large quantity of exaggeration and a certain lack of faith in humanity is present here.
That's fine, if we're talking about an innocent individual. But if you run a business or it's a court house, etc and you INSIST on plastering 'Christmas' everywhere or greeting everyone like that, then that's in essence what you are doing, for you know not everyone is a Christian that walks in your store or courtroom.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:42 PM   #56
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i also don't go around wishing strangers a merry christmas or a happy holiday or anything.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:03 PM   #57
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Well if it's so secular, why the war on Christmas to begin with? Otherwords, if you honestly think it's a secular term now, then why would you get up in arms when you don't see it in a store window, etc... I think this argument is trying to have it both ways. Especially when you are talking about nativity scenes on courthouse yards, nothings secular about that...
I don't get up in arms about it. In fact, I can understand why a nativity scene would be torn down, just I understand why some Christians would be offended, and how someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas could get offended (perhaps that's too strong of a word) by hearing the wrong greeting. However, what I can't understand is the extent to which this has become an issue in our society. If there are some offending symbols that show some sort of dominance over all other religious holidays (and they do exist, as Christmas is a secular holiday with religious elements, such as angels, nativity scenes, and, of course, the often religious-based Christmas music), it would be hypocritical of me to blindly support their placement on public property. However, there is nothing inherently religious about Christmas trees, wreaths, and, at this point, even the word itself. And, let's face it, these elements take up most of the public's attention. The War On Christmas is just laughable.

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That's fine, if we're talking about an innocent individual. But if you run a business or it's a court house, etc and you INSIST on plastering 'Christmas' everywhere or greeting everyone like that, then that's in essence what you are doing, for you know not everyone is a Christian that walks in your store or courtroom.
In this case, the business is playing the odds here. The majority of individuals that walk into your store celebrate Christmas. It's a lucrative period. If you remove everything relating to the holiday and wholly replace it, you risk alienating a large portion of your customer base. If you go all-out Christmas, you're going to offend a small percentage of those who celebrate another holiday (which is a small percentage to begin with). If you attempt to please everyone, you're going to have a portion that are still going to be offended because, dammit, you either didn't give quite enough of the display to their holiday of choice, or they're offended by your halfhearted attempt to appease them. And then there are the fundamentalist Christians to think of. Ultimately, the store owners can't win, no matter their choice. This is just my take, of course, and my assumptions could be incorrect. I probably should have brought this up in my first post, because it's honestly a good question.

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i also don't go around wishing strangers a merry christmas or a happy holiday or anything.
Neither do I. My point was based on hypothetical circumstances.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:18 PM   #58
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I'm just going to stick with my regular greeting for this time of year: Happy Oh-crap-now-I-have-to-spend-the-day-with-a-bunch-of-people-I-despise-and-pretend-to-be-happy-about-it Day!
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #59
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I'm just going to stick with my regular greeting for this time of year: Happy Oh-crap-now-I-have-to-spend-the-day-with-a-bunch-of-people-I-despise-and-pretend-to-be-happy-about-it Day!


It's not quite that way here, as my relatives are spread out over the entire country (I don't blame them; why anybody would want to live in Maryland is beyond me). I would find it quite refreshing to be able to see them face to face. Instead, the phone rings all day and night, and I hate talking on the phone with just about anyone.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:23 PM   #60
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Merry Christmas FYM, I hope we can all embrace this ancient pagan festival.

Of course you realize this is why the EXTREME conservative Christians don't celebrate it at all. They say that Christmas isn't Biblical, that Jesus wasn't born on December 25 and really it's a pagan holiday with some Christian trappings slapped on it.
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