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Old 09-23-2010, 04:56 PM   #46
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'Capitalists are bad', basically, is your argument.

Do you buy things in shops or work for a living? Do you own any assets or property?
At the height of the Nazi's powers, as well as the Communist's, and I think even today in Cuba, there were shops where people bought stuff. And those same people probably had jobs....what does that question mean?
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:47 PM   #47
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At the height of the Nazi's powers, as well as the Communist's, and I think even today in Cuba, there were shops where people bought stuff. And those same people probably had jobs....what does that question mean?
FinanceGuy don't waste your time on people who say things like the above. They don't even know the difference between a market and a command economy. They don't know the difference between mercantilism and capitalism. They don't know the difference between democracy and dictatorship. It's like trying to nail jello (their brains) and finding it futile. Their argument is that because capitalists aren't always capitalist therefore capitalism is bad. It's a vicious circular argument of two wrongs equaling a right where no headway is made.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:12 PM   #48
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Indeed, some of the posts on the thread are indicative that some posters' knowledge of economics extends only to agitprop. There's also a certain hypocrisy in people who have benefited enormously from capitalism slagging it off at the first opportunity; surely it is more sensible to advocate for free trade (and vote accordingly) so that those who have not yet benefitted properly from capitalism do so in the future. The idea that capitalism (as opposed to some individual capitalists) is supportive of subsidies for first world agriculture is particularly hilarious, CAP and similar polices are ideas supported by the farmers lobby groups and by politicians for local electoral reasons, it's inherently dirigiste policy that goes against free market principles. Of course, big business may not always be morally pure, but cheap food benefits big business, so why would it argue for subsidies?
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:20 PM   #49
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Now what about China? Protectionism currently works well for China. China´s not an Asian city without any agriculture, focused on trade from all the region around, like Singapore or Hongkong are; China is currently of the biggest countries on this planet with a billion people to feed.
I will give you that up to a point. It is only because of its large size however. Protectionist policies certainly don't work for small countries. But actually China would be better off without protectionism. This is fairly simple stuff, Ricardo's theory of comparative advantage and all that.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:28 PM   #50
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FinanceGuy don't waste your time on people who say things like the above...it's like trying to nail jello (their brains) and finding it futile.
You seriously need to get over yourself.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:36 PM   #51
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You seriously need to get over yourself.
Circular arguments are just agitprop. It has nothing to do with myself it has to do with ignorant people that can't get over their own ego's and admit they are in over their head. Do you think they will admit a mistake and say: "Hey FinanceGuy you might be right. Why don't I read some books on the subject and get back to you with better arguments or agreement?" That's not going to happen very often.

This is a more left-leaning site so conservatives get bashed with these kind of circular arguments that are more about brow-beating people than actual debate. Try and go to a conservative site and try and argue and I bet you'll get a swarm of arguments you find dumb and pointless.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:44 PM   #52
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You seriously need to get over yourself.
The left wing started the uncivility in this thread - as is often the case on here, frankly.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:51 PM   #53
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This is a more left-leaning site so conservatives get bashed with these kind of circular arguments that are more about brow-beating people than actual debate. Try and go to a conservative site and try and argue and I bet you'll get a swarm of arguments you find dumb and pointless.
You often hide under this excuse. It really has nothing to do with which side outweighs the other, a weak argument is just that, a weak argument.

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The left wing started the uncivility in this thread - as is often the case on here, frankly.
Yes, just look at the two most recent locked threads to see an example of that. Oh wait
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:58 PM   #54
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You often hide under this excuse. It really has nothing to do with which side outweighs the other, a weak argument is just that, a weak argument.
No I was pointing out a weak argument in my opinion. You think most conservative arguments are weak opinions in your opinion.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:07 PM   #55
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No I was pointing out a weak argument in my opinion. You think most conservative arguments are weak opinions in your opinion.
No, see this is false and frankly it's one of your biggest faults because it's been explained to you over and over yet it doesn't sink in. It's not your opinions that are weak it's often your lack of ability to explain how and why that opinion is valid and why it should be applied in the public sector.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:00 PM   #56
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It's not your opinions that are weak it's often your lack of ability to explain how and why that opinion is valid and why it should be applied in the public sector.
Sometimes it's the lack of ability of those who read my posts to understand them or other conservative posters. I explain plenty (who are you fooling?) and when FinanceGuy was talking about simple concepts of private property it was obvious that the left-wing posters were clueless or just plain contrarian. This is the Cuba thread right?
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:04 PM   #57
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If that's what you believe then there is no room for growth

So what about that communism?
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:11 PM   #58
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If that's what you believe then there is no room for growth of government
Hey I think we agree!
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:41 AM   #59
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FinanceGuy don't waste your time on people who say things like the above. They don't even know the difference between a market and a command economy. They don't know the difference between mercantilism and capitalism. They don't know the difference between democracy and dictatorship. It's like trying to nail jello (their brains) and finding it futile. Their argument is that because capitalists aren't always capitalist therefore capitalism is bad. It's a vicious circular argument of two wrongs equaling a right where no headway is made.
Seriously? You know, I've read your backpeddling, close minded nonsense for a while now, and I've never once felt the need to insult you. I asked Financeguy a question, because I respect what he says whether I agree with it or not. If he wants to waste his time on people like me (and usually he doesn't, and that's fine) then he can choose not to. So you didn't like the way I phrased my question, great - ignore it. It's not that hard, shit, even a moron like me can do it.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:03 AM   #60
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Seriously? You know, I've read your backpeddling, close minded nonsense for a while now, and I've never once felt the need to insult you. I asked Financeguy a question, because I respect what he says whether I agree with it or not. If he wants to waste his time on people like me (and usually he doesn't, and that's fine) then he can choose not to. So you didn't like the way I phrased my question, great - ignore it. It's not that hard, shit, even a moron like me can do it.
I know which side is close minded. You're angry that I smashed your post but you deserved it. Conservatives on this site are tired of bullshit commentary that doesn't lead anywhere. I'm actually open minded enough to admit my mistakes and have done so in the past. I would like the left (especially when talking about economics) to do the same. If there's a huge gap then agreeing to disagree is even better. Bashing capitalism with the failings of mercantilism, colonialism, etc. is pointless and just agitation and large "pile-ons" that look more like bullying than discussion. I remember when I was defending the benefits of religion and philosophy and getting piled on as a religious fundamentalist. The fact you think I backpeddle already shows that bias. After the pages and pages of posts I'm definitely not guilty of that. I'm not allowing political threads to get derailed anymore because it's a waste of everybody's time.

If you don't like capitalism find actual examples that aren't criticisms of colonialism or mercantilism or bad regulations. That will actually add to the discussion in interesting ways. I don't believe capitalism should be worshipped or seen as infallible but I would like to see someone to come up with better ideas, ah there's the rub. It's not so easy to do that when professional economists/analysts/political scientists have trouble doing it themselves.

It's easy to spout stuff that the Castro brothers and Chavez would say but it's harder to go look at the downside of those regimes and then continue to criticize capitalism.
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