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Old 11-14-2013, 09:22 PM   #811
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As for the topic at hand, I do have a bit of curiosity about something, not that I have any plans, mind you, but I do wonder about something. Maybe we could start a thread for birthing practices after all, but I digress, here's the question: These "water births", my only familiarity with them comes from the show King of the Hill, actually. While I'm sure the show was a fount of factual information, I had read an article on Cracked once (man, I am batting 1.000 on great sources here), that discussed the idea that the current practices for giving birth in hospitals (e.g. in the horizontal) are completely backwards from the way women should be giving birth.

Is that correct? Is it (scientifically speaking) better to give birth in a more....for lack of a better word...squatted position? And is that the idea behind water births?
Standard practice in hospitals uses the 'semi lithotomy' position, which is sitting slightly reclined with the knees elevated in the same way they are for a pelvic exams. There are several reasons why this is not a great position to deliver. Your pelvic bones naturally have quite a bit of flex, mostly in the back around the tailbone. Sitting on the tailbone eliminates that flex and narrows the outlet. Moving to a forward leaning position actually allows the pelvic outlet to enlarge by something like 30%. Also semi lithotomy directs the weight of the baby's head on the perineum, increasing the incidence of tears. All those things tend to make babies slow descending and can contribute to interventions like episiotomy and vaccuum extractions, but hospitals like to use it because it's very easy for the doc to see, keeps the orientation looking the same as the medical textbook and all. It's very unusual for a woman to deliver in any other position in hospital. I know that I was bodily hoisted into it at my first birth.

Most women, if not directed otherwise, end up giving birth in some sort of upright or forward leaning posture. Hands and knees is a very common spontaneous position, which makes sense because it's the least amount of pressure for her. Sometimes if there is a really big baby with a very tight fit you end up with the woman in a very deep squat like on a stool or with a squat bar, but often you have to ask her to do it. That position puts a lot of pressure on the perineum and can increase tearing but gives the widest spread of the hip bones.

Water birth helps with those things in several ways. It's really, really relaxing so it helps with the pain a lot. It makes those forward leaning positions easier because of the lack of gravity. The warmth helps the soft tissue to stretch. For many women the privacy the water gives is a big deal- the woman is not totally exposed, and it encourages the docs to keep their hands off. Some medical staff get very handsy, often 'checking' a woman too often, sometimes without asking or even notifying her that they are going to, and some women find it impossible to focus and relax that way.

As for drugs, I think it would depend. Waterbirth and epidurals, spinal blocks or pudendal nerve blocks totally don't mix. I suppose you could have demerol/numbane if you were having a waterbirth in hospital, but most midwives or birth centers wouldn't offer it. But movement and the water (and touch) are really effective pain relief themselves, so it depends what you want.

That was really long, but if mods want to move this to a birth practices thread that's fine with me.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:43 PM   #812
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Also, nathan, I am sorry for the loss of your baby and also so sorry that you didn't get a little more humane respect in here about it. I get that people like to discuss, but I totally don't get the uncaring aggression within this forum. I don't understand why disagreement needs to sound so much like personal opposition.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:16 PM   #813
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so sorry that you didn't get a little more humane respect in here about it.
because trying to trump an argument in that way is despicable.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:48 PM   #814
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Also, nathan, I am sorry for the loss of your baby and also so sorry that you didn't get a little more humane respect in here about it. I get that people like to discuss, but I totally don't get the uncaring aggression within this forum. I don't understand why disagreement needs to sound so much like personal opposition.
How did he get no humane respect here? No one laughed at what happened to one of his kids or insult him. I really don't know how you can say that.

Does FYM get aggressive here? Sure, it does. It always has been. Does it get personal? Yeah, if you offend someone, say something that doesn't make sense, or if you take a comment the wrong way. This is no different from many online forums.

It sounds like you are hijacking Nathan's posts so you can complain that FYM doesn't go the way you want it to go. That sounds very selfish.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:35 PM   #815
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I don't understand why disagreement needs to sound so much like personal opposition.
I think it's offensive to make strawman arguments and ignore the posts of the people you disagree with.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #816
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It's not disgusting, just very creepy, it's like the prelude of a serial killer. A guy is running round Birmingham stabbing random women with an ordinary needle, most of the time in the thigh/backside area. Just the once then gone.

Birmingham needle attacks: man may have struck 11 times, police say | UK news | theguardian.com
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #817
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Am I seeing things, or are they wearing ICP makeup?



God, the implications of them doing that are so scary. What if they're reusing the same needle, or one thing...
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:15 PM   #818
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this is heart breaking
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:48 PM   #819
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Trans woman invents a revolutionary golf club. Grantland journalist decides she's a little bit strange and decides to "investigate" her private life, because he's a "reporter". Despite her protests, he threatens to out her as a trans woman with a few inconsistencies in her story. She kills herself, and the journalist seems completely oblivious to the fact that he's likely contributed to her suicide. He seems to think the "story" is worth telling. What the fuck does someone's gender have to do with a golf club?

Read and vomit.

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Old 01-19-2014, 07:57 PM   #820
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And INDY says transphobia is a made up term and not real at all. Right.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:06 AM   #821
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This might be the worst news story I've ever heard. Man, beats son, 11, with cricket bat and stabs him to death at the end of cricket training, in full view of people. Police try to sedate the man, he threatens them with a knife, they shoot him and he does in hospital.

Boy dead, police shoot father in Tyabb
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:15 AM   #822
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Holy hell, what an incredible statement from the mother

Rosie Batty speaks about the tragic events leading up to the murder of her son Luke Batty, 11, in Tyabb
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:02 PM   #823
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No, the story I just read about this little boy killed in Louisiana is the absolute worst thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm actually feeling a little bit physically ill right now. This may not be the first time I've heard this story, I see it originally happened in 2011 and there was just sentencing this last week.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:44 AM   #824
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:51 AM   #825
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Media personality killed herself last week.

Here's the 'opinion' piece the New Zealand Herald thought was fine to publish. Deborah Hill Cone: It wasn't just depression that claimed Charlotte - Opinion - NZ Herald News

I've read a lot of right-wing articles on social issues that have made me very angry. I don't think I've ever read anything that has made me as apoplectic as this. What a fucking piece of shit and what an absolute fucking cunt the writer is.
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