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Old 11-13-2013, 01:24 AM   #796
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Having held three of my newborn babies and a baby born still born, I can assure you, there is assuredly a difference between a conscious newborn and not.

You ignorant little prick.
Conscious in the strictest, most basic sense of the word. You're talking about the difference between an alive baby and a dead baby (I'm not trying to be insensitive here, sorry if it comes across that way).

What me (and I think JT and Peef and Pearl and Anitram) are trying to say is that there are no benefits to leaving a piece of dead tissue attached. A baby that is born into a puddle of water or a baby born and left with the umbilical cord attached is not going to be any different to a baby that isn't. Babies are conscious, yes, but they don't have the same level of consciousness as a five year old or a teen or an adult. Otherwise we'd all remember being born.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:50 AM   #797
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To be fair, that handicapped kid should not be killing whales in a suburban neighbourhood
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:50 AM   #798
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Here's some easy reading for Nathan so he can - ironically, given his previous comments - stop speaking from a literal and profound ignorance of reality. Of course, there's always the chance he just has a completely rudimentary, 5th grade understanding of what consciousness means, but I'm hopeful he can actually learn something either way.

Traces of Adults' Consciousness in Babies' Brains, Study Shows | TIME.com

Best of luck!
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:51 AM   #799
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Babies are conscious, yes,
A newborn baby does not experience conscious thought
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:55 AM   #800
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A newborn baby does not experience conscious thought
I know that, I meant conscious as in "alive"... wrong word.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:59 AM   #801
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I know that, I meant conscious as in "alive"... wrong word.
That's what nathan's problem is. A newborn baby is alive and awake, but it doesn't yet have consciousness. Until 2 months or so, they act purely on instinct. They don't take stock of their surroundings and make conscious reactions to them. They have no working memory. For lack of a better term, they're on autopilot
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:02 AM   #802
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^what I wish I'd said.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:24 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
No. Mom-shaming constitutes mom-shaming.

"Fucking moron."

"That woman is an idiot."

"Idiotic."

"Insane."

"Dick hooks."

"People like these should be barred from ever having children."

And the more colorful commentaries since.
Calm down. None of these statements are directed at every mother in the world, just a handful. I think you are taking this debate far too personally and making it more than it actually is.

I'm sorry for your loss, but we are not talking about life and death here. Just different forms of development in the brain that leads to consciousness.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:58 AM   #804
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^what I wish I'd said.
hahaha I knew what you were getting at
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:17 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
No. Mom-shaming constitutes mom-shaming.

"Fucking moron."

"That woman is an idiot."

"Idiotic."

"Insane."

"Dick hooks."

"People like these should be barred from ever having children."

And the more colorful commentaries since.
???

What part of this has to do with shaming her BECAUSE she is a mother?

Her ignorance of the effects of UVA/UVB rays is related to her identity as a mother now?

You've totally lost the plot here.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:33 AM   #806
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Ok, folks, things have gotten way too contentious in the last few pages. Let's ease off the trigger a little here.

Nathan, I appreciate that this may hit a nerve for you, but I think the comments you object to, while maybe not the most politely phrased, are not directed at all mothers, but at one mother who engages in practices that, scientifically, put her child's health at risk. Should we accept as okay any and all ideas about raising a child?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:23 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
No. Mom-shaming constitutes mom-shaming.

"Fucking moron."

"That woman is an idiot."

"Idiotic."

"Insane."

"Dick hooks."

"People like these should be barred from ever having children."

And the more colorful commentaries since.
I know it's been said, but since it's directed at me, I just want to reply that this explanation tells me absolutely nothing. Again, all you're doing is copy and pasting the same quotes from three pages ago that I was asking you about. You seem to think this is self-explanatory, but trust me, it's not.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
No. Mom-shaming constitutes mom-shaming.

"Fucking moron."

"That woman is an idiot."

"Idiotic."

"Insane."

"Dick hooks."

"People like these should be barred from ever having children."

And the more colorful commentaries since.
That's not mom shaming. It's idiot shaming. And the idiot in case just happens to be a mom...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Ok, folks, things have gotten way too contentious in the last few pages. Let's ease off the trigger a little here.

Nathan, I appreciate that this may hit a nerve for you, but I think the comments you object to, while maybe not the most politely phrased, are not directed at all mothers, but at one mother who engages in practices that, scientifically, put her child's health at risk. Should we accept as okay any and all ideas about raising a child?
You had me at scientifically.


But that is indeed the point we all had.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:49 PM   #809
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To be fair, that handicapped kid should not be killing whales in a suburban neighbourhood
Thank you for the momentary laugh.


As for the topic at hand, I do have a bit of curiosity about something, not that I have any plans, mind you, but I do wonder about something. Maybe we could start a thread for birthing practices after all, but I digress, here's the question: These "water births", my only familiarity with them comes from the show King of the Hill, actually. While I'm sure the show was a fount of factual information, I had read an article on Cracked once (man, I am batting 1.000 on great sources here), that discussed the idea that the current practices for giving birth in hospitals (e.g. in the horizontal) are completely backwards from the way women should be giving birth.

Is that correct? Is it (scientifically speaking) better to give birth in a more....for lack of a better word...squatted position? And is that the idea behind water births?

And IF that's the case, is it true that in a water birth, you have to go all the way with the naturalness of it and you can't have access to the drugs?

I, uh...am totally...not...thinking of future plans or anything here >_>
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:20 PM   #810
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There is a lot of truth to the notion that you should keep moving in labour. There is also a lot of truth to the idea that doctors are too quick to induce labour with drugs which have the effect of slowing it down and making it more difficult. Definitely plenty of material for a thread.

But let us also not lose sight of the fact that women used to routinely die in labour for centuries upon centuries. So if you are one of the lucky ones who has a straightforward labour and everything is great, perfect. But there are many women for whom birthing in a pool or squatting at home is simply not a medical option. So it is never going to be a one-size-fits-all answer.
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