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Old 11-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #751
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I don't really see what's totally disgusting about the lotus birth. Folks usually either keep in swaddled or salted and wrapped. It's unusual but the risks are minute--less than the practice of early cord clamping, which is universal in US hospitals. Having has hospital- and home-born babies I can sympathize quite a bit with some of what this woman says, though I'm not into unattended delivery as a birth plan. And her baby clearly didn't suffer from the experience- the photo of him at 9 days is a classic picture of a healthy, alert, attached and well nurtured baby.

As for this
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And then there's the bullshit about how she didn't think the doctors would care enough for her.
lots of people choose home birth for the very same reason. It's not an unusual experience at all to feel disrespected, rushed or receive unwanted treatment in a hospital birth, and if this woman knew ahead of time what she might meet there and chose not to do it, fine for her.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #752
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lots of people choose home birth for the very same reason. It's not an unusual experience at all to feel disrespected, rushed or receive unwanted treatment in a hospital birth, and if this woman knew ahead of time what she might meet there and chose not to do it, fine for her.
My wife and I chose a home birth for our third baby for the same reason. We had a midwife and some assistance, and as a whole found the prenatal, delivery, and post-natal care far superior to the "rush you in and out and only time for the cursory questions" traditional care that we had received prior.

It was cheaper, too.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:12 PM   #753
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I don't really see what's totally disgusting about the lotus birth. Folks usually either keep in swaddled or salted and wrapped. It's unusual but the risks are minute--less than the practice of early cord clamping
Where are you getting your statistics? The reason there are so few recorded issues with having your baby unnaturally tethered to a rotting piece of obsolete tissue is because few people are stupid enough to do it, so they're statistically insignificant. There is zero benefit and they're putting their children at risk. Idiotic behaviour. And even if Chimpanzee's did this, which they don't, who cares??? We aren't descended from Chimpanzees
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:23 PM   #754
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Shortly after birth, the only thing the placenta is good for is bacterial culture.

It serves no purpose and no function and keeping it attached for nearly a week is stupid, dangerous and frankly ignorant of microbiology.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:11 PM   #755
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It serves no purpose and no function and keeping it attached for nearly a week is stupid, dangerous and frankly ignorant of microbiology.
I didn't choose lotus birth. but people who do think if it in terms of the placenta being the baby's last connection to being inside the womb, and the release of the cord as marking the baby's entry to being fully in the world. So they frame it as the baby choosing when to let go of his time inside and be fully present here.

I get that there's an ick factor here for western people who aren't used to handling body products, but it's not inherently disgusting. It's not equal to piles of children killed by nerve gas, or shaming or harming people based on who they are, and to my mind it's not even as disgusting as many birth procedures that are routine medical practice.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:37 PM   #756
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I get that there's an ick factor here for western people who aren't used to handling body products,
If that's what you got from my post, then I don't know what to say.

Again, it is unsafe as it is teeming with bacteria. Not ick factor. FACT.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:52 PM   #757
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So they frame it as the baby choosing when to let go of his time inside and be fully present here.
I remember being SO pissed off that my parents didn't allow me this choice!
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #758
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I didn't choose lotus birth. but people who do think if it in terms of the placenta being the baby's last connection to being inside the womb, and the release of the cord as marking the baby's entry to being fully in the world. So they frame it as the baby choosing when to let go of his time inside and be fully present here.
New age pseudo-scientific, psuedo-spiritual horseshit. The baby isn't choosing anything. It's not natural. It's not beautiful. It's not intelligent. It's dumb and it's exposing the baby to a host of pathogens. "The baby choosing when to let go of his time inside and be fully present here" doesn't mean anything. It's idiocy prancing around as spirituality. It has no substance; a deepity if there ever was one.
Every dumb choice a new mother makes needn't be applauded and revered.

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I get that there's an ick factor here for western people who aren't used to handling body products, but it's not inherently disgusting. It's not equal to piles of children killed by nerve gas, or shaming or harming people based on who they are, and to my mind it's not even as disgusting as many birth procedures that are routine medical practice.
There's no ick factor and that's a bit presumptuous and patronizing (and to be honest, a bit passive aggressive....and when we think about it, not all that unlike your "well, I understand that it must make you angry" every-man-contributes-to-holding-women-down line of arguing). Nothing about the human body makes me feel "icky". I'm perfectly comfortable with all it has to offer. I've never had that sort of response from anything medical. I'm disgusted that a clueless idiot is being celebrated for putting her child's life in danger based on misinformation and weak "spiritual" beliefs.
Your false equivalence to nerve gas and, I'm guessing, fat shaming (?) are as head scratching as they are intellectually stunted.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:14 AM   #759
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That was maybe a bit bitchy. It's just frustrating that your line of argument always goes to some form of personal issue on the part of the opposing side rather than accepting the argument at face value.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:21 AM   #760
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Yeah, it might have been. I don't even know why there needs to be 'opposing sides' here, let alone the kind of heat that has been in these last responses. All I'm saying is that lotus birth is an unusual cultural practice and its risks are tiny, because the cord quickly dries to the same kind of dry rope as an ordinary umbilical stump, and the placenta is not kept in direct contact with the baby. I do think this woman should have salted her placenta, though. But we routinely engage in birth practices that are measurably dangerous and we don't call them absolutely disgusting.

Some things are inherently disgusting, like violence and the deliberate harm of other people. But disgust is largely a learned emotion, and I'm just saying lotus birth belongs in the second category rather than the first.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #761
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Yeah, it might have been. I don't even know why there needs to be 'opposing sides' here, let alone the kind of heat that has been in these last responses. All I'm saying is that lotus birth is an unusual cultural practice and its risks are tiny, because the cord quickly dries to the same kind of dry rope as an ordinary umbilical stump, and the placenta is not kept in direct contact with the baby. I do think this woman should have salted her placenta, though. But we routinely engage in birth practices that are measurably dangerous and we don't call them absolutely disgusting.
What do you mean there doesn't need to be "opposing sides"? We should just go along with it? You can't say the risks are tiny. Not enough people engage in this sort of behaviour to draw any conclusions. The placenta is in direct contact with the baby. It's tethered to the thing! It's a lump of decomposing flesh kept in the same room with the baby. That should be enough right there. Just because something is 'unusual' or 'cultural' (is it really cultural?) doesn't mean we have to treat it with respect. What other completely unnecessary birth practices do you think are on par with this?

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Some things are inherently disgusting, like violence and the deliberate harm of other people. But disgust is largely a learned emotion, and I'm just saying lotus birth belongs in the second category rather than the first.
There you go again. Nobody here is opposing it because we're grossed out by it. Take my words at face value and stop imposing non existent values onto me
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #762
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The majority of the heat this is getting isn't directed at you, it's directed at the irresponsible parents
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #763
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Originally Posted by jeevey View Post
Yeah, it might have been. I don't even know why there needs to be 'opposing sides' here, let alone the kind of heat that has been in these last responses. All I'm saying is that lotus birth is an unusual cultural practice and its risks are tiny, because the cord quickly dries to the same kind of dry rope as an ordinary umbilical stump, and the placenta is not kept in direct contact with the baby. I do think this woman should have salted her placenta, though. But we routinely engage in birth practices that are measurably dangerous and we don't call them absolutely disgusting.

Some things are inherently disgusting, like violence and the deliberate harm of other people. But disgust is largely a learned emotion, and I'm just saying lotus birth belongs in the second category rather than the first.
In FYM, everything can be met with an opposition, no matter how small. This is a place for debate, in other words.

In regards to this topic, I may need to do research a bit, but it seems like in every culture throughout history, babies had their umbilical cords snapped once they were out of their mothers and the placenta discarded. This story sounds a lot like the practice of delivering babies while the mother sits in a tub of water. Supposedly, it gives the effect of being in the womb and eases the transition for the baby. Which is odd, considering that for millennia, babies came out of the mothers into the dry, cold air with no problem. They don't have the conscious mind of older humans, so they never had remembered a damn thing. Therefore, all these new delivery methods are bizarre and pointless.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:17 AM   #764
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There you go again. Nobody here is opposing it because we're grossed out by it. Take my words at face value and stop imposing non existent values onto me
I agree this is really annoying.

Before my current career I was dead set on a path to finish a PhD in immunology. I did my research in one of the best children's research hospitals in the world, for a principal researcher who has a disease named after him. Really great, impressive stuff (him, not me).

So it's not some kind of disgust because I'm a westerner (as an aside, I didn't grow up in the west), but because it is plain fact that a placenta is verving with bacteria very shortly after birth. Putting it in a bag is completely unsanitary. Salting it would improve the situation to some extent but certainly not to acceptable levels as is evidenced by rates of food-borne illness even among salted/cured meats.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:37 AM   #765
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There's a reason why the umbilical cord is cut. This has nothing to do with beliefs or other mumbo jumbo but with basic hygiene. Ignoring that is just plain stupid and it DOES have high risks for the baby as dead tissue decomposes quickly and attracts all sorts of germs and insects. So it's not because it's 'icky' but it's because it's actually pretty dangerous to your newborn's health.

As a parent you have the responsibility for your kid's health. Be fucking responsible. HOw you want to give birth is one thing, but leaving the cord AND the placenta has no added positive value and a whole lot of risks so it's just plain retarded.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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