Farewell to Helen Thomas - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-12-2010, 03:27 PM   #61
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,885
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
As the late, great Tony Snow once quipped to Helen Thomas during a White House press conference, "Well, thank you for the Hezbollah view."
Tony Snow had the perfect temperament for that job.
__________________

__________________
Bluer White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 01:00 AM   #62
Refugee
 
U2387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,217
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Helen Thomas Gets A Defender... Hezbollah

As the late, great Tony Snow once quipped to Helen Thomas during a White House press conference, "Well, thank you for the Hezbollah view."
As if Hezbollah are the only group in the entire world that take issue with Israel expanding into land they do not have any business being in. Building settlements, etc. Israel is being flat out unreasonable and an obstacle to the peace process no doubt.

I don't think Helen Thomas or anyone else in their right mind would ever even think about excusing the actions that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah have resorted to.

The Palestinians want the same things Israelis have and most of them want nothing to do with groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.

To equate criticism of Israel's lack of good faith in the peace process with supporting or merely parroting the views of Hezbollah is completely ignorant, brain dead and reeks of arrogance and disrespect.

And to think... Obama is supposedly the "punk" who discounts all opposing views.

Just like Obama is the dictator who is afraid of Fox News and surely afraid of terrorists.......only no one has yet caught him planting favorable people to lob softballs at press conferences like Bush routinely did.

With the economy and 2 wars, does anyone blame Obama for not having time or energy or patience for what amounts to a propaganda network that will make everything look like a negative for him and his party anyway?

Anyways, bottom line:

Its a shame Helen Thomas said what she said, she is a great lady who had worked hard, overcome challenges and conducted herself professionally and honestly for 50 years!

It is also a shame that Tony Snow, God rest his soul, said what he said, as he was ultimately a classy guy who was fair to people and conducted himself with integrity. Rove had no doubt briefed him beforehand..... I guess when you work for the devil...........
__________________

__________________
U2387 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 02:47 AM   #63
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:44 PM
here is an op-ed I read this morning

Quote:
Don't single out Helen Thomas
The veteran journalist was pilloried for her remark about Israel, but where's the uproar over such comments directed at Palestinians?

Saree Makdisi

June 13, 2010

Unconscionable. Offensive. Hurtful. Bigoted. Terrible. Hateful.

These are the words being used to describe Helen Thomas' recent comment about Israel and Palestine. Editorialists across the country have condemned her statement that Jews should "get the hell out of Palestine" and "go back" to Europe.

Let's agree that she should not have said those things, and that a just and lasting peace in the Middle East fundamentally requires reconciliation between Palestinians and Israeli Jews. We need also to agree on a formula that allows them both to be at home in the same land (I have long advocated the idea of a single democratic and secular state for both peoples; a state that treats all citizens as equals). Insisting that either people does not belong is not merely counterproductive; it lies at the very root of the conflict.

If, however, it is unacceptable to say that Israeli Jews don't belong in Palestine, it is also unacceptable to say that the Palestinians don't belong on their own land.

Yet that is said all the time in the United States, without sparking the kind of moral outrage generated by Thomas' remark. And while the nation's editorialists worry about the offense she may have caused to Jews, no one seems particularly bothered by the offense felt every day by Palestinians when people — including those with far more power than Thomas — dismiss their rights, degrade their humanity and reject their claims to the most elementary forms of decency.

Are we seriously to accept the idea that some people have more rights than others? Or that some people's sensibilities should be respected while others' are trampled with total indifference, if not outright contempt?

One does not have to agree with Thomas to note that her remark spoke to the ugly history of colonialism, racism, usurpation and denial that are at the heart of the question of Palestine. Part of that history involves vicious European anti-Semitism and the monumental crime of the Holocaust. But the other part is that Palestinians were forcibly removed from their homeland in 1948 to clear space for the creation of a state with a Jewish identity.

Europeans and Americans were, at the time, willing to ignore or simply dismiss the injustice inflicted on the Palestinians, who, by being forced from their land, were made to pay the price for a crime they did not commit.

But this callous carelessness, this dismissal of — and refusal even to acknowledge in human terms — the calamity that befell the Palestinians, and of course the attendant refusal to acknowledge their fundamental rights, did not end in the 1940s. It continues to this very day.

Mainstream politicians, civic leaders, university presidents and others in this country routinely express their support for Israel as a Jewish state, despite the fact that such a state only could have been created in a multicultural land by ethnically cleansing it of as many non-Jews as possible. Today, Israel is only able to maintain its Jewish identity because it has established an apartheid regime, both in the occupied territories and within its own borders, and because it continues to reject the Palestinian right of return.

Where is the outrage about that?

Where was the outrage in 1983 when Israeli Gen. Rafael Eitan looked forward to the day that Jews had fully settled the land, because then "all the Arabs will be able to do about it is scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle"? Or when Alan Dershowitz suggested in 2002 that Israel summarily empty and then bulldoze an entire Palestinian village as a punitive measure each time it was attacked? Or when New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman claimed in 2006 to have discovered a "pathology" that caused some Arabs to "hate others more than they love their own kids"? Or when Avigdor Lieberman (who now serves as Israel's foreign minister) said in 2004 that Palestinian citizens of Israel should "take their bundles and get lost"? Or when Israeli professor Arnon Sofer, one of the country's leading demographic alarmists, said that to preserve the Jewish state, Israel should pull out of Gaza, though that would require Israel to remain at the border and "kill, and kill, and kill, all day, every day"?

An endless deluge of statements of support for the actual, calculated, methodical dehumanization of Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular goes without comment; whereas a single offhand comment by an 89-year-old journalist, whose long and distinguished record of principled commitment and challenges to state power entitles her to respect — and the benefit of the doubt — causes her to be publicly pilloried.

To accept this appalling hypocrisy is to be complicit in the racism of our age.
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 01:24 PM   #64
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,269
Local Time: 10:44 PM
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. That op-ed sums up my feelings exactly.

One definite defender of her so far. One. Most people out there have criticized her for saying what she said. So, uh, yeah, not sure what your point is here, INDY.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 06:49 PM   #65
Refugee
 
U2387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,217
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
here is an op-ed I read this morning
Thanks, Deep!

Good find.

The entire Helen Thomas uproar should remove all doubt anyone still as about the level of influence the Israel lobby has on our government, our media and yes, INDY, even liberal academia.

Israel has gotten a pass for far too long.

Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and other Arab terrorist organizations are born out of an ideology of hatred, intolerance and a desire for the onset of a strictly interpreted Shar'ia law in the entire world.

That would be present no matter what, I would think.

So no, Israel is not the cause of groups like Al Qaeda, but its actions, and our support of them no matter what the circumstances, certainly helps them get more and more Muslims to buy into their hatred.

The level to which people like Joe Lieberman, Anthony Wiener, etc use the US Government to blatantly do Israel's work borders on treason.

Just look what happened to Jim Moran(D-VA) when in 2003 he suggested that the Israeli lobby had a lot to do with many members' votes on Iraq despite the fact that there was no clear threat. Nancy Pelosi took him from a leadership role in the Party caucus to the back bench, where he remains to this day, in less than a nano second.

(Moran's got his own problems, he's not the most virtuous Congressman up there, but at least he's got the balls to say what others wont.)
__________________
U2387 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #66
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Those arguments, about America in the 1700 and 1800s are ridiculous.
When anyone brings them up, they have surrendered the argument.

It is a confession that their cause is illegitimate.

Why????

Because in the 1700, and 1800s, there was all kinds of wrong actions and behavior. Why not argue for child labor laws, and slave labor to build the infrastructure, railroads, etc. That is/ was the standard in the 1800s.

Now if you want to come out of the dark and into the light of the 1900s and 2000s.

What is the standard? WW1, Germany and the AXIS powers, captured territory and displaced people. The world united against, this taking of territory and pushed them back.

WW2, again aggressors were pushed back, and the victors did not annex their conquered territories. Unless you want to site the Soviets and Eastern Europe? Does Israel want to say they follow the Communist Soviets, that were eventually fought back in the Cold War and had their empire crumble?

And we have Iraq and Saddam expansion into and taking of Kuwait. Should that have been allowed to stand? The Imperialists Japanese expansion into and taking Asia and the Pacific?

And when I did visit Japan, Japanese people did tell me that their expansion during the 1930s and 1040s was no different than the U S expansion into the West. That is was their manifest destiny.

All through the 1900s it has been going the other way. Expansionism, wrong, Manifest destiny, wrong. Occupation, wrong.

Israel's arguments about the 1800s are morally bankrupt.


And as for the hope that with time 200- 300 years from now this will be forgotten and Israel will be looked at the same way as the U S and their taking of natives' lands.

That was the same thing the White South Africans thought they could pull off in South Africa. And it worked through the 1960s through most of the 1980s. They got that far with the US, Reagan, Cheney and the like labeling the ANC, terrorist, communists, and killers of innocent people. Cheney and Reagan would have been fine with Mandela being executed.

Finally the West stopped supporting them and they had to deal with Mandela the terrorist and reach an accommodation.
Whoa, slow down, cowboy.

I wasn't making an argument. I was making an observation. And it was an observation that lends SUPPORT to your point of view. Perhaps you missed sarcastic nature of the final sentences of my post.

Furthermore, I don't think that the American land grab of the 1800s was okay (nor any of the other atrocious behaviors you mentioned). It wasn't okay then. It's not okay now. That was the point I was making.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2010, 09:47 PM   #67
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:44 PM
sorry, Sean

I am sorry I quoted you in my reply, those observations are so often made by many people that support Israel

each time I just roll my eyes, because I think they are not credible at all

my reply was more of a response to all the times I have heard those comparisons.

I just quoted you for a reference point, I should have began with,
'This is not directed at you, but at those arguments".
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 09:48 PM   #68
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
sorry, Sean

I am sorry I quoted you in my reply, those observations are so often made by many people that support Israel

each time I just roll my eyes, because I think they are not credible at all

my reply was more of a response to all the times I have heard those comparisons.

I just quoted you for a reference point, I should have began with,
'This is not directed at you, but at those arguments".
I'm actually shocked that pro-Israel hardliners would be callous enough to present those sentiments as an actual argument! I didn't realize that.

Perhaps Achtung Bono can elaborate?
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 10:07 PM   #69
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 11:44 PM
So, I guess the Jews should go back to Germany or Poland or somewhere.

Not many friends here.
__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 10:40 PM   #70
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post

Perhaps Achtung Bono can elaborate?


Part of me understands how she feels, she is Jewish living in Tel-Aviv.

I have been hearing those arguments all my life. I don't expect to ever stop hearing them. We see what lengths this country went to after Pearl Harbor (internments) and 911 (too many too list) .
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 06:21 AM   #71
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
So, I guess the Jews should go back to Germany or Poland or somewhere.

Not many friends here.
So, you didn't read what she actually said.
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #72
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Part of me understands how she feels, she is Jewish living in Tel-Aviv.
AB has always struck me as quite sincere in her posts, and I appreciate that this is not just an abstract issue for her. Which is exactly why I'm curious to see what she might say about the comparison.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 01:42 PM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
So, I guess the Jews should go back to Germany or Poland or somewhere.

Not many friends here.
Just because one finds the situation in Israel complicated and see missteps on both sides does not equate to a desire for the Jews to go back to anywhere.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 02:36 PM   #74
Refugee
 
Muldfeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,882
Local Time: 11:44 PM
I couldn't find a thread with the name "Israel" or "flotilla" that was responded to recently, so this'll have to do.

Check out Jon Meacham and Bill Maher saying that the US media isn't pro-Israeli and, if anything, is actually pro-Palestinian. I was shocked at either the self-delusion (which I think Bill Maher is going through) and careerist phoniness (which I think Jon Meacham is practicing).

YouTube - Maher: Media 'Way Too Stupid' to Understand Israel/Palestine Conflict

Let me remind you of Jon Meacham's book tour in 2003 to promote his biography of Churchill and FDR's alliance. He constantly stated that this paralleled the nobility of George W. Bush and Tony Blair's righteous war. Screw him and other "moderates" who further American folly. He now works for PBS, which is very pro-Israeli in its questioning, though occasionally stumbles upon guests who explain the Middle East issue -- like Ali Abunimah -- but then refuse to invite them again because their Zionist funders won't have it, so they invite some coopted wimp like Hisham Melham.

I never used to believe Noam Chomsky's allegations, but, in the last few years, looking at the mainstream US media's treatment of Israel's massacres of Lebanon, then Gaza, and now the flotilla, I see how right he is.
__________________
Muldfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2010, 02:46 PM   #75
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muldfeld View Post
-- but then refuse to invite them again because their Zionist funders won't have it


floating conspiracy theories isn't going to win you any support. the tired "the Jews control the media" is silly. you can certainly point to AIPAC money in Congress, but there are other, bigger lobbying groups (the NRA springs to mind) that wield far more influence.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com