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Old 06-08-2010, 10:31 PM   #16
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I guess I'm missing something here or somewhere

She is Lebanese American, she has a bias, Israel did attack and occupy Lebanese Territory. I understand her bias.

I don't understand many Americans' bias for all Israeli action's, unless I run it through a religious bias, then it makes sense to me.

It does not make it right to me, I am just able to understand what motivates a person's bias.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:31 PM   #17
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Please tell me what I am missing?
Reading comprehension skills would be my guess.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:32 PM   #18
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classy
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:35 PM   #19
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Reading comprehension skills would be my guess.


Please post what I missed to read or did not understand.
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:37 PM   #20
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it manifests over years, and often begins with inappropriate remarks like this. Getting out of bed and going to work daily at 89 is quite an accomplishment. I wish people could be a little more empathetic in this case and realize that there just might be something more going on than an evil woman finally showing her true colours, here.

Back to my break...
Given her press room performances, over many years, it's difficult to be empathetic.

But I do respect your FYM break, probably a good idea
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:42 PM   #21
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classy
I'll consider the source for this statement.

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Please post what I missed to read or did not understand.
I thought the post was very clear, and I'm not sure what could have been misunderstood?

I was referring to the way people are reacting to her recent comment that led to her retirement. I'm surprised that people seem to be attacking her so vigorously, when given her age, the cause could very well be some sort of dementia. Is that not fairly clear...?
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:22 PM   #22
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Given her press room performances, over many years, it's difficult to be empathetic.


not deferential enough?
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:57 PM   #23
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Jews have lived in the area known in modern times as the British Mandate of Palestine, for thousands of years and up to the present time.

Indeed, Israelite civilization goes back to the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as to King David and King Solomon. We Jews spring from the loins of those patriarchs.

The State of Israel sits where the Jewish kingdoms of Judea and Israel reigned thousands of years ago.
First of all, I'm not here to defend Helen Thomas' statements. I do not agree with them, and while it is true that she does enjoy freedom of speech, she also must deal with the fact that it's a two-way street. That is, people have exercised their freedom of speech to call for her dismissal in reaction to her words, and the latter argument won out.

But, really, even if we cast aside the reality that the above could very well be mythical, what do historical claims to land have to do with anything? By that logic, we should be handing over North America to the Native Americans/First Nations because they were there "first." Israel has a stronger claim to the land in more modern and pragmatic terms. Jews, for one, had been growing in numbers since the 19th century and had successfully waged a campaign for independence from Britain, thus culminating in the UN creation of Israel. Even at that, they can also claim expanded borders from the old fashioned rules of war, which they waged through the 1960s, etc. with their Arab neighbours. By all reasonable historical accounts of nations that have come into existence, Israel does have a right to exist.

What we have here, ultimately, are unresolved territorial boundaries in an unresolved conflict that stretches back decades, both involving the displaced Palestinians themselves and the undeclared proxy war involving nations like Iran that continue to fund this conflict. This cannot be resolved by waving a magic wand and hoping that 1947 never existed. It will have to involve negotiation and compromise between two willing parties, or, barring that--which appears to be the case currently--likely more war until they are ready. It's not the most romantic of resolutions, but the history of progress appears to be paved with bloodshed, because we can't seem to resolve our issues any way else.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:04 AM   #24
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not deferential enough?
An opinion columnist too nutty and partisan to deserve a front row seat. She became a side show.

White House correspondents are held to a higher standard. Ms. Thomas is an anti-Semite. I respect her years on the job, but eventually words have consequences.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:17 AM   #25
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Ms. Thomas is an anti-Semite.
I tend to think that this term has almost lost all meaning.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:25 AM   #26
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White House correspondents are held to a higher standard.

like Jeff Gannon?

but on a more serious note, do you think the press should be more or less adversarial? compare our press corps to those in the UK.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:30 AM   #27
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I tend to think that this term has almost lost all meaning.
I could post a video clip of her comments and the meaning would certainly not be lost.

But she has retired and is old and I'll leave it right here.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:17 AM   #28
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Have you seen the full clip? She's not trying to be cruel; she's offering advice to the young man we see toward the end about a career in journalism; she's not anti-semitic at all.
YouTube - Helen Thomas Complete (original)

This is all the pro-Israeli and Zionist lobby manipulating facts and interpretations to steer the discussion away from Israel's despicable behavior. The media is freer in Israel, for crying out loud. Some of the best criticisms of the occupation come from the Israeli film industry -- films like "Lemon Tree."

She misspoke, forgetting that there are some Jews indigenous to the area. However, she was asked about Israel, not Jews. She said Israel should get out of Palestine, which is largely true and is a view that adheres to the human rights groups the world over and the UN. Israel expanded far beyond its allowed borders and even its creation as a state specifically for Jews was due to US pressure; the UK abstained.

It is a very racist state, both from its early days of expanding through ethnic cleansing and violence to scare Palestinians out of their homes and into the present with its blockade of Gaza, numerous roadblocks (where people are beaten and prevented from taking various foodstuffs), and building of an illegal wall (all the while allowing settlers to constantly violate the ridiculous borders they've created for them). Even Arab and Ethiopian Jews are heavily discriminated against. And suffice it to say that Hamas was democratically elected, but it's somehow regarded as okay to sow civil war by backing the corrupt losing side and giving them funds and blockading the winning side because they don't wanna put up with Israel's crap.

My sense is that the vast majority of Israelis are from nations where there is no significant persecution. Circumstances may have been different in the '40s, but it was wrong to take it out on the Palestinians, who have paid the price for the West's anti-semitism. Any time Palestinians criticize Israeli, the lazy US mainstream media, including PBS, characterizes it as anti-semitism, when it has to do with resources, not some Nazi construct. It's a cheap way to dehumanize your critics as evil. The basic issue is that Jews who migrated there did so by choice and, especially in the last few decades, they had many choices; the Palestinians have nowhere to go.

She's really talking about colonialism and about the better off willfully moving from reasonably comfortable lives and exploiting a situation where Palestinians are dispossessed. Settlers are some of the most disgusting people.

Haven't any of you noticed the odd degree to which Israelis speaking on news footage have strong American accents? That's no accident. They're people who have no conscience about the land they're taking from others and they're using the Israeli state to justify this theft.

A few years ago, I saw a news report about a Toronto Jewish couple that moved to Israel; what's worse is that they moved right up against the security wall, which means Israeli will invariably move that wall for the sake of protecting them from terrorists, but they weren't even legally permitted to move that close.

I remember when I was in 10th grade and a native was reflecting on his people's difficulties and he said quietly, "I hate the white man." At the time, I thought, "How extreme!" and I'm ashamed to say that I berated him; the art class teacher responded in the same way. However, looking back, I was wrong. His family was likely quite poor and natives would surely have been better off as a society if white settlers hadn't come. As an immigrant to Canada, my family has benefitted from a system that discriminated against them.

Israel's expansion was carried out in post-colonial times --when international law recognized colonization as wrong. Yet, it was allowed to continue and still continues, under the illusion that Jews have a right to do what they will there.

She may have been speaking quickly and unable to fully elaborate, but it's not like the interviewer really cared. She was also pained about the situation, which America is largely insensitive to. We should be far more disgusted with how the US media has constantly justified Israeli murder as "defense". Helen Thomas was the only one in that room who cared about the deaths on the flotilla; everyone else was making excuses for Israel because it helped their careers and because of their nationalistic bias (nationalistic because American national security identity has become tied up with being pro-Israeli, but that's largely due to Cold War decisions).



In the clip by the rabbi, she was trying to be forthright but wasn't trying to be racist or meanspirited. She was trying to convert any people who might be watching -- to realize that most of Israeli land was stolen and that most of its migrants didn't have a right to be there. CNN's Wolf Blitzer has Israeli citizenship, for crying out loud. Why should he have that power? What discrimination has he faced. I think you can tell how distorted the American media is by those who are attacking her -- people like Ari Fleisher and pro-Clinton scumbags like Lanny Davis and Joe Klein. People can't talk honestly about the real issues of rich versus poor -- of those with opportunities due to US aid versus those without due to US pressure and violence.

She was talking about colonization, not anything to do with Jewishness. There are many liberal Jews who agree with her.
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:20 AM   #29
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You know, I'm quite sure if the situation were reversed the very people who are berating Helen Thomas would be trying to explain and justify the journalist's words and/or pleading for people to try and be respectful.

I think VintagePunk has a valid point worth considering. But maybe somebody should sit down with Helen and ask her precisely what she meant and why she said what she said. Mystery solved, then.

She said something stupid, no question. She's retiring, and has apologized for it. Whether you think it's sincere or not is up to you. What more do we need to discuss?

Angela
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:38 AM   #30
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I should add that this resonates with a long tradition in the mainstream media with obsessing over symbolism and words, rather than actions and laws that have far greater impact.

Gay rights: Bush's 2004 anti-gay marriage law seemed to get less fury by some than that actor on "Grey's Anatomy" calling another actor a "fag", in anger. In both cases, Disney was involved -- wholeheartedly supporting Bush in 2004 by trying to prevent Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" from being released and then probably being part of the decision to fire the actor, who probably wasn't anti-gay.

Danger of extermination:
Ahmadinejad (whom I don't endorse) was misquoted by an Israeli newspaper as wanting to exterminate Israel's Jews, when he really implied that he wished they hadn't come there, which is far less genocidal. Yet that misquotation has been restated over and over, even when translators have tried to correct it, as one did on PBS' "Now with David Brancaccio".

Hamas is denigrated for refusing to recognize Israel (This should be amended to Israel's present borders, as it would now accept 1967 borders, shared control of Jerusalem, and right of return); yet, no liberation movement can accept the entity it's fighting; otherwise, Hamas would be lying if it ended up picking up arms if talks failed. The Maquis couldn't recognize Vichy France and marauding native tribes couldn't recognize white settlers. The only power Hamas has is its refusal; it's very little power that belies Israel's ability to say one thing and DO something else. Ditto the US.

These have to do with words, but Israel's actions belie its public statements and it has killed millions of Palestinians and abused its power several fold. None of the actual murderous actions are discussed. Yet we obsess over Iran's threats, when it's Israel that's killing Palestinians for 60+ years now. Hamas came into existence 39 years after the ethnic cleansing and killing began.

Actions should speak louder than words, but they don't seem to do so to our superficial mainstream media. Helen Thomas' comments are only the most recent example of this. As Laura Flanders says, "She would have gotten less grief if she had shot 9 people in the head in international waters."
YouTube - White House condemn Helen Thomas but not murder of aid activists on International waters
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