Eyeful of breast-feeding mom sparks outrage

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WildHoneyAlways said:


"No shoes, no shirt, no service."

If someone walks into Burger King without a shirt and/or shoes on they will not be served. That's standard.


I've always wanted to know if that sign meant that I could walk in without pants and still get served.

Wasn't there a similar flap a dozen years ago with Deborah Norville? Granted her mammary gland wasn't quite as "in your face" as on the cover of this magazine, but still...funny how far we (haven't) come.
 
In the new Vogue model Angela Lindvall is photographed breastfeeding her 14 month old son

I'll just post the link in case there's some sort of issue with posting the picture. I think it's beautiful

http://s2.supload.com/files/default/angelal_vogueus08062.jpg

On that same blog they mention that it's World Breastfeeding Week this week, and they also discuss the Babytalk cover issue

One comment I thought was telling..

"I remember when my firstborn was a baby, we had some friends over. We were sitting around, watchin (I kid you not) MTV (gimme a break, we were babies ourselves). My son started fussing to nurse, so I got up to leave the room. One of the guys, WHO WAS SITTING THERE, STARING AT BOOBS ON TV, said to me as I made my way out of the room, "Thank you, on the behalf of all of us, for leaving to DO THAT."

Some people will never understand."
 
Okay, I think I get what Nbc has been trying to say.

He's talking about the concept of "appropriateness" if I understand him correctly.

It's not about what's right or wrong, just what's appropriate at a particular time. One would never argue that eating is wrong, but it would be inappropriate for the best man to be munching on a sandwhich during the vows.

So the question is: Is there ever a time when breastfeeding is in "inappropriate." Some people might argue that breastfeeding in public is "inappropriate." There are those who may find it "icky" apart from any sexual connotations. Some people are just hypersensitive about anything body-oriented, I guess. And issues of "modesty" can come up outside of sex. I remember when Gen. Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the Enola Gay, returned to Saipan and Tinian for the first time since World War II. I was volunteering with the film crew following him around. We were taping a breakfast he was having with the governor and the instructions from the director were "Don't shoot him eating. This guy doesn't want the whole world watching him eat his eggs."

But again, this is all cultural conditioning and I think it would be good to change the "cultural conditioning" in this country when it comes to the issue of breastfeeding.

This still doesn't address the issue of the picture that started this thread. I think the picture is very modest and tasteful and I'm still amazed by the fuss over it.
 
"No shoes, no shirt, no service."

If someone walks into Burger King without a shirt and/or shoes on they will not be served. That's standard.

I can't ever remember seeing a breasting mother walking into a restaurant topless.

But does this honestly mean that women aren't allowed to feed their babies while they are there? As you said, it's not as though breastfeeding women go topless, so how could they enforce a rule like that?
 
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It's not about what's right or wrong, just what's appropriate at a particular time. One would never argue that eating is wrong, but it would be inappropriate for the best man to be munching on a sandwhich during the vows.

So the question is: Is there ever a time when breastfeeding is in "inappropriate."

Breastfeeding isn't something you can just "put off" until a more appropriate time. When a baby is hungry, it wants to be fed NOW - not when everyone around it feels comfortable with it. I'm sure the same people who would refuse to allow a mother to breastfeed her baby would be the same ones who would complain because the baby was crying too loudly because it was hungry!

Breastfeeding is never inappropriate. It is a necessity.
 
OceanGirl said:


But does this honestly mean that women aren't allowed to feed their babies while they are there? As you said, it's not as though breastfeeding women go topless, so how could they enforce a rule like that?

:huh: I've never heard of it being applied to breastfeeding women.

Breastfeeding or not, I don't think wearing a shirt is too much to ask. :shrug:
 
OceanGirl said:


Breastfeeding is never inappropriate. It is a necessity.

I would tend to agree with you. However, I was pointing out what I think was nbcrusader's point. It remains to be seen whether he will confirm whether I gothis perspective right.
 
A good summation, but simplification of cultural norms down to appropriateness can result in the poor analysis that suggests breastfeeding is inappropriate. That is not what is being suggested.
 
OceanGirl said:


But does this honestly mean that women aren't allowed to feed their babies while they are there? As you said, it's not as though breastfeeding women go topless, so how could they enforce a rule like that?

No, it has nothing to do with breastfeeding. Just because a woman is breastfeeding doesn't mean we should encourage her walking in and out of shops and restaurants completely topless.

It's more so people don't walk into grocery stores barefoot and shirtless, grossing out other customers. Also, as dumb as it sounds, not wearing shoes is actually a liability. You know some barefoot dumbass would slip on an oil spill at a gas station and try to sue the company for damages.

The "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign is usually posted at a low-key place like a gas station, convenience store, or fast food joint. At other places, it's pretty much a given that people will be clothed to some extent.
 
I've never heard of it being applied to breastfeeding women.

I wouldn't have automatically assumed that it applied to breastfeeding women. I was just going by what nbcrusader said in his post -

Yes, you can pull out a sexual aspect in modesty. What comes to mind is the "No shirt - No service" rules that prevent Bubba from eating at the diner. Nothing sexual there. Yet, an expectation of modesty as part of the public setting.

And, no, Bubba is not a victim here.

I just figured by the wording that it meant that this rule prevented mothers' from breastfeeding their babies at all. I obviously misinterpreted nbc's post! :reject:
 
nbcrusader said:
A good summation, but simplification of cultural norms down to appropriateness can result in the poor analysis that suggests breastfeeding is inappropriate. That is not what is being suggested.

But you were suggesting that there might be certain locations or times at which breastfeeding would be inappropriate, correct?

Or do you agree with the summation that breastfeeding is never inappropriate? And if you do agree with that summation, what would your concerns be about the cover that prompted this thread, or do you have any concerns about the cover?
 
To the contrary, I believe the objections regarding breastfeeding deal with the manner in which it is conducted, not location or even the act itself.

As noted before, most public breastfeeding is done in a modest fashion - it is not even noticed.
 
deep said:
your link does not work

I see it :shrug:

Interesting article I found on Google

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/997

By Nancy M. Solomon
WEnews commentator

"As nursing mothers celebrate World Breastfeeding Week, a women's rights attorney says more states need to pass laws specifically protecting this natural practice that benefits infants, mothers and thus the community.

In June 2001, a woman in San Mateo, Calif., was asked to stop breastfeeding at a public pool. She was told that her actions violated public health codes and constituted indecent exposure and nudity. Pool staff later informed her that they were afraid her breast milk "might infect the pool water." :eyebrow:

What many people do not know is that breastfeeding in public is legal in every state. A mother does not need to "cover up" or go somewhere more private. More than half of states have laws specifically protecting this right, but even in those that do not, it is still legal to breastfeed in public.

Breastfeeding laws fall generally into two categories. Some states simply exclude breastfeeding in public from the state's criminal laws regarding indecent exposure or obscenity, so that a woman cannot be charged criminally for nursing in public. In these states, a woman who is harassed for breastfeeding in public can sue under other laws, such as those prohibiting sex discrimination in places of public accommodation.

Other states, such as New York and California, offer stronger protection in the form of civil statutes protecting a woman's right to breastfeed in public. Under these laws, mothers may sue for civil rights violations if they are prevented from breastfeeding in public. Federal law also protects nursing mothers, although it only ensures them the right to breastfeed in public if they are on federal property.

Recognizing that discrimination against nursing mothers is a national issue with implications for our country's health, the American Medical Association in May adopted a resolution urging states to pass legislation protecting a mother's right to breastfeed in public. But any legislation passed should not merely make nursing in public an exception to a state's obscenity or indecent exposure laws, but should guarantee breastfeeding as a civil right.

When someone asks a woman to cover-up during breastfeeding or move to someplace more private, it is often because this person is sexualizing the act of breastfeeding rather than viewing it as a natural, nurturing act. What people do not realize is that many infants cannot eat while covered up and a nursing mother should not be made to feel embarrassed for feeding her child.

Too many women have been made to feel this way, including one woman who was asked to stop breastfeeding in the children's section of a Borders Books and Music store in Glendale, Calif. In 1999, the California Women's Law Center sued Borders on behalf of this nursing mother. Borders settled and agreed to educate its employees about the right to breastfeed in public.

Even after the Borders case, many people continue to harass breastfeeding mothers. Unfortunately, in states with no laws about breastfeeding in public, individual courts will determine the extent of a nursing mother's right.

For example, in Derungs v. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., a district court in Ohio held that discrimination against breastfeeding women is not sex discrimination in violation of Ohio's public accommodation laws. Ohio currently has no law protecting a woman's right to breastfeed in public and, so while a woman still has the right to do so, it is not illegal for someone to harass her for doing so."
 
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MrsSpringsteen said:
Pool staff later informed her that they were afraid her breast milk "might infect the pool water."

wow.......just, wow. Yes, something that's so nutritious and is the sole form of food for the first year of a baby's life MUST contain and infectious parasite. Maybe we should ban men from the pool. Penises might leak and infect the pool water!!!!! :|
 
Yes, breast milk must be right up there with menstrual blood and all those other unclean issues surrrounding women :|

Guys can pee in the pool but watch out for that breast milk!
 
I honestly can't believe somebody even made that statement with a straight face. One has to assume that person is essentially too stupid to live.
 
I'm sorry that I missed this earlier when I replied...

Devlin said:


And still you miss the point: I have no problem with that concept. The REALITY (look it up, it's an interesting word)

...

I know you want to be particularly dense, however, so I'm done trying to explain the idea to you.

Devlin, that is extremely rude, and we don't allow people here to conduct themselves in such a manner. Please try to be more respectful of others.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:




In June 2001, a woman in San Mateo, Calif., was asked to stop breastfeeding at a public pool. She was told that her actions violated public health codes and constituted indecent exposure and nudity. Pool staff later informed her that they were afraid her breast milk "might infect the pool water." :eyebrow:

eh???.. those people act like they were born from a glass tube... that's the weirdest thing i've ever heard :huh:

Too many women have been made to feel this way, including one woman who was asked to stop breastfeeding in the children's section of a Borders Books and Music store in Glendale, Calif. In 1999, the California Women's Law Center sued Borders on behalf of this nursing mother. Borders settled and agreed to educate its employees about the right to breastfeed in public.

It is funny, but kids seem to understand the nature of breastfeeding better than many adult people with dirty things in mind...
 
Nbc, did you have an issue with the magazine cover shown on the first page of this thread?
 
This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone here..

But sometimes it gets so confusing and bizarre in society in general that I have to wonder if some men, if some women have more of an issue with that Babytalk cover and with public breastfeeding than they do with something like "Girls Gone Wild".
 
MrsSpringsteen said:

But sometimes it gets so confusing and bizarre in society in general that I have to wonder if some men, if some women have more of an issue with that Babytalk cover and with public breastfeeding than they do with something like "Girls Gone Wild".

I think maybe people disassociate? Like, the more conservative, modest mothers really have nothing in common with Girls Gone Wild women - these ladies might as well be another species - but the bare breast and baby hits too close to home? That's not how I feel, but maybe some do?
 
I can't believe some people are stupid enough to think that breast milk will infect water. They put that in a baby's stomach, for goodness' sakes!
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone here..

But sometimes it gets so confusing and bizarre in society in general that I have to wonder if some men, if some women have more of an issue with that Babytalk cover and with public breastfeeding than they do with something like "Girls Gone Wild".

We miss a number of factors in these two examples - including market exposure and personal impetus for response. Plenty of people may be offended by one thing or another, but they are not all the "squeeky wheel".
 
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