Eyeful of breast-feeding mom sparks outrage

[Devlin]

Seems to me that both Salome and Mussgy missed my point - yes, m'dear Salome, I know where babies come from. And yes, Muggsy, I was born of a woman after the usual fashion. Knew it when I was five, and knew what the proper terms for the necessary equipment were and looked like, too. Shocking as it is, my mother showed them to me from this giant sex encylopedia-type book she had, and that I was perfectly welcome to read at any time. Hilarious.

My point is this: It is uncomfortable for me. Would I jump up and demand a nursing mother stop? Absolutely not. Not only is that completely rude and moronic, I don't think there's anything wrong with breastfeeding one's kid. Yay! Breastfeed away! That doesn't mean I don't find it uncomfortable to glance over and find some random woman's breast partially exposed. In such a situation, I simply find something else to look at.

This said, I don't see why a mother isn't sexy or sensual merely because she's a mother. I should hope a mother breastfeeding IS a sexy thing (not in the pornographic sense, though that wouldn't exactly bug me) - after all, how else did she get that baby in the first place!

maybe we ought to shred that whole 'Mothers are innocent, pure, and wholesome' crapola for once and all.

That whole ideal is probably why I don't want to become a mother..it's repulsive to me that I'd lose my sensuality and sexuality in people's eyes simply because I have a baby attached. Jeez. NO wonder may women feel like crap after they have kids. They are denied the right to be sensual, sexy, and earthy. Ugh.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

That said, those that choose not to breastfeed in front of others, whatever the reasons, should not be made to feel guilty.

Absolutely, it's all about the right of mothers to choose-whether or not to breastfeed, or to do so in private or public. That right should be theirs though, and it shouldn't be taken away from them just because other people have hangups and/or issues surrounding an exposed breast-and when has anyone ever seen a woman breastfeeding in public with as much breast exposed as it is on that magazine cover? Certainly not in the US. Most women manage to cover up so that you can't even see any breast, with a blanket or towel, etc. They shouldn't be made to feel like they have to go to a bathroom or that they are being indecent in any way.

And that's a great point about pregnant women exposing their bellies-celebrities are making it fashionable now, and I think it's beautiful.

 

[Greenlight]

My point is this: It is uncomfortable for me. Would I jump up and demand a nursing mother stop? Absolutely not. Not only is that completely rude and moronic, I don't think there's anything wrong with breastfeeding one's kid. Yay! Breastfeed away! That doesn't mean I don't find it uncomfortable to glance over and find some random woman's breast partially exposed. In such a situation, I simply find something else to look at.

.

I remember when I was breastfeeding my first child some younger friends (of both sexes) admitted that they were quite apprehensive and uncomfortable about visiting us as they had never seen a mum breastfeeding up close before and they weren't sure if they wanted to. They later said after they'd seen me feed a few times that they couldn't see what all the fuss about and it seemed completely natural.
I think it's only through a combination of education and exposure (no pun intended!) that people will acclimatise to the issue and accept it. Now if only a few celebrity mums were to feed in public that might make it more acceptable....

 

[AliEnvy]

Now if only a few celebrity mums were to feed in public that might make it more acceptable....

That would turn it into cheap tabloid fodder which is probably why they don't.

Vanity Fair should do a cover with Britney Spears nursing after the baby is born...the naked pregnant celebrity has been done before.

 

[shrmn8rpoptart]

Apparently this has not been an issue until our age in history

 

[nbcrusader]

I agree about not pre-emptively judging people who Don't See Things With The Perfect Clarity I Do, but I don't think "modesty" is sufficient explanation for why in this case "going out of our way to not offend someone" might be desirable--you have to go further than that, break it down into what precisely would be the reason for taking offense or diagnosing immodesty. Is it because breastfeeding could be seen as having sexual connotations? If so, then we have a basic-definitions disagreement problem, because clearly many people do not see breastfeeding as in any sense sexual (as opposed to, e.g., setting guidelines for how low-cut a shirt one may wear in the workplace, where you generally have agreement in principle that there is indeed an attempt to appear sexually attractive involved). Or is it because breastfeeding falls into the category of bodily functions? In that case, then you have to further define which bodily functions it's most analogous to, because obviously we have widely varying ideas of what constitutes "propriety," depending on the function in question. I think this is why several people kept making the point that nursing is essentially a form of eating (which we don't generally frown upon in public, unless crumbs or wrappers on the floor is a hygiene issue), as opposed to, e.g., a form of excreting waste.

I’m not sure we have a clear answer for why we are modest. Sex has been the predominate suggestion, but I think there is quite a bit more there. I’d ask the ladies, why would you go into a dressing room to try on a blouse if they were wearing a bra? No breast exposed. No overt sexual message. There seems to be more driving our own modesty, thus our desire (or expectation) for more modesty.

The examples of cheerleaders, VS ads and the like are really not the equivalent to the situation here.

 

[maycocksean]

I’m not sure we have a clear answer for why we are modest. Sex has been the predominate suggestion, but I think there is quite a bit more there. I’d ask the ladies, why would you go into a dressing room to try on a blouse if they were wearing a bra? No breast exposed. No overt sexual message. There seems to be more driving our own modesty, thus our desire (or expectation) for more modesty.

The examples of cheerleaders, VS ads and the like are really not the equivalent to the situation here.

What do you think is going on here, Nbc? Why are we modest beyond reasons having to do with sex, in your opinon?

 

[nbcrusader]

I think modesty is a way of showing respect for each other. It is not just about covering our sexual organs, it is about not drawing extreme attention to ourselves.

 

[yolland]

But doesn't that beg the question of what it is that's drawing that extreme attention to oneself? Why would we generally consider a woman trying a blouse on sans dressing room (to use your example) to be any more immodest than the same woman trying on a pair of shoes in public view? Isn't it because a naked (or lingerie-clad only) female torso is seen as more sexual than a naked female pair of feet?

I do agree with you that this situation is different from VS or cheerleaders, in that the whole point of those is they're spectacles intended to be looked at, and don't have any of that "Whoops! Wasn't expecting to see that!" aspect.

 

[Muggsy]

For me...all that "modesty" concept is another way to say that women's bodies are sinful. When I heard that modesty is a way to avoid attention from others is like giving an excuse to harrass anyone who is showing a part of their body.

 

[nbcrusader]

But doesn't that beg the question of what it is that's drawing that extreme attention to oneself? Why would we generally consider a woman trying a blouse on sans dressing room (to use your example) to be any more immodest than the same woman trying on a pair of shoes in public view? Isn't it because a naked (or lingerie-clad only) female torso is seen as more sexual than a naked female pair of feet?

Yes, you can pull out a sexual aspect in modesty. What comes to mind is the "No shirt - No service" rules that prevent Bubba from eating at the diner. Nothing sexual there. Yet, an expectation of modesty as part of the public setting.

And, no, Bubba is not a victim here.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

For me...all that "modesty" concept is another way to say that women's bodies are sinful. When I heard that modesty is a way to avoid attention from others is like giving an excuse to harrass anyone who is showing a part of their body.

I disagree. For example, modesty in dress at the workplace. Maybe I've got an outdated p.o.v but I think professional dress at work is still important for both men and women.

 

[Salome]

Seems to me that both Salome and Mussgy missed my point - yes, m'dear Salome, I know where babies come from. And yes, Muggsy, I was born of a woman after the usual fashion. Knew it when I was five, and knew what the proper terms for the necessary equipment were and looked like, too. Shocking as it is, my mother showed them to me from this giant sex encylopedia-type book she had, and that I was perfectly welcome to read at any time. Hilarious.

My point is this: It is uncomfortable for me.

I think you've been missing the point yourself
and not by a little bit either

1. since you are aware where babies come from and
2. you're also aware that babies need food and
3. that mankind much like a lot of other animals provide this by having the mother breastfeed and
4. breastfeeding is the most healthy thing for the baby and
5. therefore a lot of people have been breastfed or are breastfeeding so

it's such a natural part of human life that I am baffled to learn that there is anything to feel uncomfortable about

 

[Laura M]

That whole ideal is probably why I don't want to become a mother..it's repulsive to me that I'd lose my sensuality and sexuality in people's eyes simply because I have a baby attached. Jeez. NO wonder may women feel like crap after they have kids. They are denied the right to be sensual, sexy, and earthy. Ugh.

If you're not even a mother, how do you know they are denied the right to be sensual, sexy and earthy?

 

[OceanGirl]

Yes, you can pull out a sexual aspect in modesty. What comes to mind is the "No shirt - No service" rules that prevent Bubba from eating at the diner. Nothing sexual there. Yet, an expectation of modesty as part of the public setting.

And, no, Bubba is not a victim here.

Is that an actual rule over there? Or is that an example you made up to make a point??

If you are serious, that is shocking! And yes, in a situation such as this, the baby WOULD be a victim.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I’m not sure we have a clear answer for why we are modest. Sex has been the predominate suggestion, but I think there is quite a bit more there. I’d ask the ladies, why would you go into a dressing room to try on a blouse if they were wearing a bra? No breast exposed. No overt sexual message. There seems to be more driving our own modesty, thus our desire (or expectation) for more modesty.

The examples of cheerleaders, VS ads and the like are really not the equivalent to the situation here.

the cheerleader example is as meritous as the change room one.

this thread gives me angina. or maybe it is the view by some that there is an element of overexposure in breastfeeding, or that the breast as a sexual icon cannot be seperated from a breast which has a baby attached. if anyone on here (which no one will freely admit to) has an issue with breastfeeding because they cant seperate it from a sexual setting then they need a shrink. a freudian one, if possible. if anyone thinks that breastfeeding creates a modesty or overexposure issue, then you need a damn opthalmologist.

is this where modern thinking has gotten us?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Is that an actual rule over there? Or is that an example you made up to make a point??

If you are serious, that is shocking! And yes, in a situation such as this, the baby WOULD be a victim.

"No shoes, no shirt, no service."

If someone walks into Burger King without a shirt and/or shoes on they will not be served. That's standard.

I can't ever remember seeing a breasting mother walking into a restaurant topless.

 

[Devlin]

I think you've been missing the point yourself
and not by a little bit either

1. since you are aware where babies come from and
2. you're also aware that babies need food and
3. that mankind much like a lot of other animals provide this by having the mother breastfeed and
4. breastfeeding is the most healthy thing for the baby and
5. therefore a lot of people have been breastfed or are breastfeeding so

it's such a natural part of human life that I am baffled to learn that there is anything to feel uncomfortable about

And still you miss the point: I have no problem with that concept. The REALITY (look it up, it's an interesting word) is that I have, to date, never actually seen a woman breastfeed. It's a very wierd situation simply because I don't expect to see it. I'd get over it soon enough, though, if I saw it on a regular basis.

I know you want to be particularly dense, however, so I'm done trying to explain the idea to you.

 

[Devlin]

If you're not even a mother, how do you know they are denied the right to be sensual, sexy and earthy?

DOesn't matter - the comment that mothers are automatically not sexy has cropped up here. And how many countless scores of women feel unsexy because theiur husbands stop comiong after them like they're the last gold mine in the world the second they have a kid? Plenty of them. I've heard too many women complain about it to not know the sentiment exists.

Lackababies does not exclude my powers of observation.

 

[BVS]

So breastfeeding mothers need to stay home until child is done breastfeeding...this is what I'm gathering from some in here.

I'm honestly not surpised that some aren't suggesting burkas in here.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Saying that women should not be forced to breastfeed in private if they don't wish to, simply because some people can not separate sex and carnal thoughts from a faint glimpse of a breast, is not the same thing as saying that Moms are automatically not sexy. Moms are sexy, there's nothing sexier than the most important job on earth(along with fatherhood). And breastfeeding, or bottlefeeding, is a beautiful time in which to bond with a baby. It's the inability of the viewer of the faint glimpse of breast (or the picture referenced in the original article) to separate the two that is the issue. As the woman in the article claims- "a breast is a breast, it's a sexual thing". I think the implications of that and the article have already been explained in the thread.

Who said or even implied that mothers are automatically not sexy? That's not what people have been saying.

 

[deep]

I'm honestly not surpised that some aren't suggesting burkas in here.

there is a correlation to many fundamentalists beliefs

 

[Muggsy]

if anyone thinks that breastfeeding creates a modesty or overexposure issue, then you need a damn opthalmologist.

is this where modern thinking has gotten us?

I still dont get why "modesty" has been brought to this topic in the first place .

I've seen a lot of mothers breastfeeding since I was little and that was the way I learned about the function of boobs, many of my (male) friends had the same experience, seeing their moms feeding their siblings or when they saw the new baby of some neighbor, so now they are able to respect the space of a breastfeeding mom, and they now that is quite different from a girl with a huge cleavage.

as I said before I still see women feeding their babies in public places. I've noticed that younger moms preffer to feed their babies in more private spaces , but they don't have any problem to feed their babies in front of their friends . The idea of someone telling them that moms should stay at home is just so absurb, and it turns breastfeeding into an unnatural thing . moms won't expose their boobs more than is necesary to feed their babies, and people should realize that the health of the babies and the special bond with their moms comes first.

About if moms are sexy or not.... I live in a culture where moms have an special place, and they deserve lots of respect (ask zidane ), obviously this idea comes with a "macho" attitude that has been left behind , so the word "sexy" wasn't the best adjetive to be used until a few time ago. I do believe that women look beautiful and sexy when they are pregnant and my friends say the same thing, because they are full of live.

 

[Salome]

And still you miss the point: I have no problem with that concept. The REALITY (look it up, it's an interesting word) is that I have, to date, never actually seen a woman breastfeed. It's a very wierd situation simply because I don't expect to see it. I'd get over it soon enough, though, if I saw it on a regular basis.

I know you want to be particularly dense, however, so I'm done trying to explain the idea to you.

I hope my denseness doesn't offend you too much
your offensive style of posting doesn't do much for me though

I don't miss your point:
you have never seen anyone breastfeed

I am not sure what that is supposed to teach me though
I wouldn't reckon breastfeeding is an unnatural thing that should only be done in your own house just because you have never seen it happen

if it will take you a while to get used to seeing breastfeeding then I have to wonder what it will take for you to deal with seeing some stuff in this world that really is shocking and not something as natural as breastfeeding

 

[deep]

The REALITY (look it up, it's an interesting word) is that I have, to date, never actually seen a woman breastfeed.

"... a woman breastfeed. "

Neither have I.

I am told there are sites that sell dvds and videos for selected audiences.

I have however, observed many infants, breastfeeding, and it really is no big deal.

 

[Muggsy]

Neither have I.

I am told there are sites that sell dvds and videos for selected audiences.

I have however, observed many infants, breastfeeding, and it really is no big deal.

right now... are talking about the importance of breastfeeding in the news (caracol Network - Colombia) , and they are showing a mom feeding her baby . She's using one of those bra with removable cups.

 

[Bonochick]

That doesn't mean I don't find it uncomfortable to glance over and find some random woman's breast partially exposed. In such a situation, I simply find something else to look at.

I agree.

 

[deep]

right now... are talking about the importance of breastfeeding in the news (caracol Network - Colombia) , and they are showing a mom feeding her baby . She's using one of those bra with removable cups.

 

[nbcrusader]

So breastfeeding mothers need to stay home until child is done breastfeeding...this is what I'm gathering from some in here.

I'm honestly not surpised that some aren't suggesting burkas in here.

No, we were actually conducting a good discussion without such hyperbole.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Angelina Jolie wore a nursing bra on the People cover w/Shiloh and in the photos

http://www.parenting.com/parenting/babytalk/channel

"Do you have a favorite photo of you breastfeeding your baby? Mail it in, and we may print it in an upcoming issue. Send your photograph, along with your name and the name and age of your baby, to: Momspeak, Babytalk Magazine"