Extremists open fire at Paris satirical newspaper, kill 12 - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-08-2015, 04:06 AM   #46
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There's another shooting happening this morning in Paris, but it's completely unclear if the cases are connected and if the perpetrators fled by metro or are caught.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:28 AM   #47
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There's another shooting happening this morning in Paris, but it's completely unclear if the cases are connected and if the perpetrators fled by metro or are caught.
reports i've read are saying they've arrested the shooter from this morning's attack, but he is not the same person as from yesterday...

eta: now they're saying one person has been arrested but the shooter got away (from the shooting this morning)

there has also been an explosion this morning in a restaurant in eastern France, not a gas leak or anything, but apparently described as criminal...
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:57 AM   #48
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And another policeman killed in Paris...
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:45 AM   #49
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you're cherry picking vlad... they're a satirical publication known for being tasteless and going too far... and if you're trying to insinuate by these particular cartoons that they target a particular group, well, no, everything is fair game, all religions, politics, they put everything out there in your face whether you want to see it or not... (for instance, a dog humping Hollande's leg is one image that unfortunately comes to mind)
I'm not necessarily even cherry picking, it's just those cartoons stood out to me in particular, and simply enough I wanted to hear what they meant because otherwise I'm going to be left thinking it comes from some reactionary far right rag.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:51 AM   #50
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I'm not necessarily even cherry picking, it's just those cartoons stood out to me in particular, and simply enough I wanted to hear what they meant because otherwise I'm going to be left thinking it comes from some reactionary far right rag.
that's why it's important to be aware of the context and to dig a little deeper to find the meaning... pretty sure most educated people following French news/current affairs would understand the meaning of those cartoons at least (well, actually they do, clearly!)... no way would a "reactionary far right rag" be so valued in France - give us some credit!

there is a difference between ridicule, casting the spotlight on bigotry, racism and stupidity (which Charlie Hebdo does), and incitement to racism/hatred ("reactionary far right rag")
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:01 AM   #51
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I don't think Charlie Hebdo cast the spotlight on bigotry, racism, and stupidity nearly as much as they think (or you) think they do. That's all. Again, I'm not saying they were asking for it any sense, I just don't think they should be celebrated as if they were doing a great thing. They were most certainly not. Their cartoons aren't funny and many times simply trip over satire on the way to being offensive. They have every right to do that and the people who did this are heinous, but that doesn't mean they should be held up as a bastion of wit.

This feels gross to talk about in light of what happened, but it seems like it's being overlooked too frequently here.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:07 AM   #52
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Just out of curiosity Peef were you were aware of the sort of content Charlie Hebdo were publishing before this? I had never heard of the magazine until about this time last night.

Also mama cass Vlad is pretty switched on, I'm sure, like me, he would have perused a bunch of coverage and those were the cartoons that stood out that he wanted to understand. Just a curious inquisitor from overseas, not ignorant or deliberately selective.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:08 AM   #53
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I don't think Charlie Hebdo cast the spotlight on bigotry, racism, and stupidity nearly as much as they think (or you) think they do.
perhaps not to you, but i think it's a huge cultural thing... perhaps incomprehensible to others... it's a French institution - people here are shaken by it tremendously

eta, re. spotlight - wtf?! they clearly rattled a few cages didn't they? the whole editorial team has just been decimated in a targeted terrorist attack!

it was about freedom, they had been targeted for years and knew it, the late editor and cartoonist Charb had said he would rather die standing up than live on his knees... fucksakes, respect

and he knew he could take that risk personally, and said he had no kids, no wife, so no fear of reprisals, and could therefore take a stand
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:13 AM   #54
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Just out of curiosity Peef were you were aware of the sort of content Charlie Hebdo were publishing before this? I had never heard of the magazine until about this time last night.

Also mama cass Vlad is pretty switched on, I'm sure, like me, he would have perused a bunch of coverage and those were the cartoons that stood out that he wanted to understand. Just a curious inquisitor from overseas, not ignorant or deliberately selective.
i guess that is the problem - people with no historical, cultural or emotional connection to the magazine are just discovering it now and making judgements via the internet... i find it insulting that people would think that France would hold a "reactionary far right rag" so dear, and miss the point completely, sorry

but yeah, i understand vlad is normally pretty on the ball with stuff, but i guess this is very "French" and i understand that i would have no clue about publications in many other countries, so i get that he was just inquisitive and maybe wasn't aware of the context of the cartoons he posted...
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:19 AM   #55
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I hate to defend the kid but I think he was genuinely just being inquisitive, not making judgements at all. He wasn't aware of the context, which is why he asked, I would have done the same...
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:27 AM   #56
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I hate to defend the kid but I think he was genuinely just being inquisitive, not making judgements at all. He wasn't aware of the context, which is why he asked, I would have done the same...
yeah sure, so i gave him a pounding first just in case it was a trick question, but then answered his question at least

ps: sorry vlad
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:36 AM   #57
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i find these comments troubling but unsurprising:

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Donohue goes on to say that "Stephane Charbonnier, the paper’s publisher, was killed today in the slaughter. It is too bad that he didn’t understand the role he played in his tragic death. In 2012, when asked why he insults Muslims, he said, 'Muhammad isn’t sacred to me.' Had he not been so narcissistic, he may still be alive. Muhammad isn’t sacred to me, either, but it would never occur to me to deliberately insult Muslims by trashing him."

Catholic League: Paris Terrorism Victims Have Themselves To Blame For Their Deaths - The New Civil Rights Movement

the problem, i think, really *is* religion -- at least the nature of religion, in that it offers the believer the illusion of Absolute Truth and Certainty.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:42 AM   #58
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i find these comments troubling but unsurprising:




the problem, i think, really *is* religion -- at least the nature of religion, in that it offers the believer the illusion of Absolute Truth and Certainty.
the crazy thing is, commenters like these don't seem to be aware that French Muslims (and from other countries) are devastated by these events and have absolutely condemned the attack, and are between a rock and a hard place, between radical extremists betraying their beliefs and rising anti-Muslim sentiment in France, not to mention the Muslim victims, a subeditor at Charlie Hebdo who was Algerian, and the Muslim policeman brutally shot at point blank range on the street...
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:57 AM   #59
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perhaps not to you, but i think it's a huge cultural thing... perhaps incomprehensible to others... it's a French institution - people here are shaken by it tremendously

eta, re. spotlight - wtf?! they clearly rattled a few cages didn't they? the whole editorial team has just been decimated in a targeted terrorist attack!

it was about freedom, they had been targeted for years and knew it, the late editor and cartoonist Charb had said he would rather die standing up than live on his knees... fucksakes, respect

and he knew he could take that risk personally, and said he had no kids, no wife, so no fear of reprisals, and could therefore take a stand
The United States' most notable satirical publication is The Onion, but The Onion's satire targets those who deserve scorn. I can't imagine them ever putting together something like this:



I don't know why we need to hold up Charlie Hebdo as a champion of discourse in condemning these attacks.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:59 AM   #60
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Just out of curiosity Peef were you were aware of the sort of content Charlie Hebdo were publishing before this? I had never heard of the magazine until about this time last night.
I didn't recognize the name at first but once I was reminded that they were the ones who received threats a few years ago, yes. I'm far from a study on them but my understanding of them is apparently far different from Mama Cass's, as everything I've heard about them before this and now after this tragedy has made me think they're racist and xenophobic.

The best description I saw of Charlie Hebdo was "a bunch of white guys punching down."
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