Extremists open fire at Paris satirical newspaper, kill 12 - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-07-2015, 05:52 PM   #31
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An absolute tragedy and a disgrace. Deeply saddening and troubling. Just getting a chance to read all about this now and it's just awful.

We should note that it's hard to talk about a story like this without addressing the rampant Islamophobia in France, and we need to remember that satire can still be racist. Freedom of speech is extremely important. But there's a responsibility we need to make sure we have when employing satire, and from what I've read Charles Hebdo may have shirked that responsibility. Am I saying they deserved any of this? Hell fucking no. But in describing this as a tragedy, it's probably important not to jump "This is a tragedy that never should have happened" to "This is a tragedy that never should have happened, and I fully support Charles Hebdo because they satirized everyone."
Charlie Hebdo was firebombed in 2011 due to publishing cartoons portraying Mohammed, the sadly now late Stephane Charbonnier (editor and cartoonist "Charb") had been living under police protection for years due to the threats and he was on the Al Quaeda wanted dead or alive list... sure they pushed the boundaries of satire, but they were standing up to bullies, and they refused to be intimidated as a matter of principle... humour is a precious freedom - you can't have bullies dictating what you can or cannot laugh at... religion can be incredibly ridiculous, and Charlie Hebdo was not afraid to put the spotlight on this (and every other issue known to humankind LOL)... otherwise what? will we just end up living in fear? pulling films from movie theaters??

and i'm not sure i would say "rampant Islamophobia", not among non-FN supporters for sure, we're not quite there yet, thankfully, i hope!!
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:01 PM   #32
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Simon Jenkins says it better than I can...

Charlie Hebdo: Now is the time to uphold freedoms and not give in to fear

Charlie Hebdo: Now is the time to uphold freedoms, not give in to fear | Simon Jenkins | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:34 PM   #33
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Defending these cartoons works against furthering more important things like education for girls, and advancing women's rights.
Probably a discussion for another day.

But in principle I agree. When Bill Maher calls out progressives for their massive failings to speak out against the horrors in Muslim countries, he's right.
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Old 01-07-2015, 07:56 PM   #34
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what is the golden rule?
One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. something like that?

these killers are true believers that want anyone killed that blasphemes The Prophet. If any member of their family or if they themselves ever did that they 100% believe they should be killed. They treat others as they would want others to threat them. They also do not disrespect other religions and expect others to do the same.

The cartoonists did not follow the Golden Rule.

They knew their actions would harm and injure others is that how they wanted to be treated?
Do you type this crap strictly to cause a stir?
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:00 PM   #35
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Yes.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:02 PM   #36
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I was actually quite surprised to read that Charlie Hedbo is/was a leftist paper.

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But in principle I agree. When Bill Maher calls out progressives for their massive failings to speak out against the horrors in Muslim countries, he's right.
Bill Maher should generally be ignored.
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:33 PM   #37
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Bill Maher should generally be ignored.
He certainly says some very ignorant things (like vaccines cause autism) but he's actually been remarkably lucid and appropriately critical of progressives who have turned an almost complete blind eye to the way that women are treated in the Middle East.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:21 PM   #38
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I really liked what Salman Rushdie had to say about this:

In part, "I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity."

Salman Rushdie: I stand with 'Charlie Hebdo' | Shelf Life | EW.com
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:33 PM   #39
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these killers are true believers that want anyone killed that blasphemes The Prophet. If any member of their family or if they themselves ever did that they 100% believe they should be killed.
Bullshit. That's the lie in this. That these terrorists are some sort of purists. The night before 911 the terrorists were drinking and partying. They found porn in Bin Laden's house. These people aren't believers, they're radicals and there's a world of difference between the two. A radical is just a crazy person; period. If religion hadn't ever been invented, they'd just find something else to latch their crazy on to.
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:09 PM   #40
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Can mama cass etc. explain what these images mean? I can't understand French.

 






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Old 01-07-2015, 10:16 PM   #41
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Really liked peef's post, something I missed in my haste.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:33 AM   #42
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Bullshit. That's the lie in this. That these terrorists are some sort of purists. The night before 911 the terrorists were drinking and partying. They found porn in Bin Laden's house. These people aren't believers, they're radicals and there's a world of difference between the two. A radical is just a crazy person; period. If religion hadn't ever been invented, they'd just find something else to latch their crazy on to.

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/7/7509265/...hebdo-cartoons
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:38 AM   #43
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The poor French. Is yelling "God is great" while viciously murdering your countrymen honestly seen by some as act of valor?

Gosh, the world seemed so much better when I was young, ignorant, and had never heard of the word Islam.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:08 AM   #44
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Gosh, the world seemed so much better when I was young...
So say we all.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:06 AM   #45
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Can mama cass etc. explain what these images mean? I can't understand French.

 






you're cherry picking vlad... they're a satirical publication known for being tasteless and going too far... and if you're trying to insinuate by these particular cartoons that they target a particular group, well, no, everything is fair game, all religions, politics, they put everything out there in your face whether you want to see it or not... (for instance, a dog humping Hollande's leg is one image that unfortunately comes to mind)

the first image illustrates a racist comment about a French MP made by a member of the extreme right Front National (their flame logo) which sent shockwaves thru the whole media at the time - it's an example of taking a stupid ignorant comment and blowing it up to highlight the ridiculousness and disgustingness (is that a word) of it, not letting it get ignored - showing the FN as they really are, how their attitudes haven't changed

the second, "allocs" means "benefits", so i'm guessing it's playing on prejudices (immigration, benefit claimers, a topic the extreme right are always harping on about) by using an extreme example

and the third, Dieudonne, long story which I don't have time to go into, French comic who seems to have veered wildly from the political left to the far right, recently known for promoting strongly antizionist and antisemitic views and having close associations with the extreme right (Le Pen senior is his child's godfather)... recently become an incendiary character in France (and hero to the extreme right)... but basically he promoted a gesture called the "quenelle" which is also a name for a type of food, sausage thing (the thing stuck up his ass basically) which was adopted by the extreme right in particular, used in nazi type poses by FN members and was believed to be a variation on the nazi salute

you have to think about their cartoons a little sometimes to get their meanings... sometimes they're not what they seem at first glance... often very sarcastic too
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