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Old 02-20-2012, 11:19 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I do that almost every time I try to type something thoughtful and rational in FYM. We're, like, twins!
I saw what you did there!
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:20 PM   #77
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i was being ironic. lots of people are far more offended by accusations of racism than they are by actual racism.

like the people who refuse to believe that there's anything race-related in the Tea Party.
Which explains why the Tea Party vigorously fought against Charlie Crist, Mike Castle, Dede Scozzafava, Bob Bennett and all those other white GOP establishment candidates. Oh wait, that actually disproves your B.S. allegation.

But yes, false charges of racism are should be very offensive to everyone. Too bad rabid partisanship leaves some blind to that.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:21 PM   #78
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i can't see how ANYBODY would not have made the connection between "Chink" and a Chinese-American player.

it's like an Onion headline.
It's like the South Park episode when they're trying to come up with a new flag design
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

and you could've questioned it a lot less dickishly
Interesting that you are on the side of "why so sensitive" yet you're totally misreading an innocent question as "shitty" and "dickish" and acting a little offended yourself.

I meant nothing by it, good night my friend.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #80
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Which explains why the Tea Party vigorously fought against Charlie Crist, Mike Castle, Dede Scozzafava, Bob Bennett and all those other white GOP establishment candidates. Oh wait, that actually disproves your B.S. allegation.

it's true. knowing a black person means you cannot be racist. why some people have been in the army with black people and showered next to them. automatically: not racist. it's like when Bill O'Reilly went to that restaurant in Harlem was all like, "wow, everyone was so well behaved" -- he can't be racist anymore! he went to Harlem and he saw nice black people! my immediate subordinate is a black person. she's great at her job. it makes me feel good because if i were racist i totally would never see that.




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But yes, false charges of racism are should be very offensive to everyone. Too bad partisanship leaves some blind to that.

and much more important than actual racism.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:24 PM   #81
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Interesting that you are on the side of "why so sensitive" yet you're totally misreading an innocent question as "shitty" and "dickish" and acting a little offended yourself.

I meant nothing by it, good night my friend.
It's no secret around here that you don't know how to carry on a conversation without getting all bitchy. I wasn't being sensitive, just pointing something out for you.

Sweet dreams
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:36 PM   #82
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When I first read this I thought it could easily be one of those completely unintentional things and what surprised me more is that it got published, so I assumed it got past at least one or two people and NOBODY noticed it was offensive? Maybe I work in an industry where we obsess over every "the" and every comma so it's unimaginable to think something like that would slip by.
As a sports web editor, I can tell you it is because the emphasis is speed in too many cases. That's how you get situations like CBS reporting Joe Paterno was dead when he wasn't.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
it's true. knowing a black person means you cannot be racist. why some people have been in the army with black people and showered next to them. automatically: not racist. it's like when Bill O'Reilly went to that restaurant in Harlem was all like, "wow, everyone was so well behaved" -- he can't be racist anymore! he went to Harlem and he saw nice black people! my immediate subordinate is a black person. she's great at her job. it makes me feel good because if i were racist i totally would never see that.

and much more important than actual racism.
Quote:
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,"
sen Joe Biden on Barack Obama
take your Tea Party hate and your double standards to the Tea Party thread.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:43 PM   #84
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It's commonly known that everyone from Scranton is a jackass. Joe Biden is no different.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:00 AM   #85
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Which explains why the Tea Party vigorously fought against Charlie Crist, Mike Castle, Dede Scozzafava, Bob Bennett and all those other white GOP establishment candidates. Oh wait, that actually disproves your B.S. allegation.

But yes, false charges of racism are should be very offensive to everyone. Too bad rabid partisanship leaves some blind to that.
Racism is not as simple as Hood-wearing white supremacists. . .

To a degree, racism is part of the human condition. We have some unique historical antecedents here in the U.S. that make it more sticky between certain racial groups, but prejudice, stereotypes etc etc. I don't think anyone is 100% free of those.

I know I'm not. I'll tell you when you live outside the United States for awhile immersed in other cultures, you realize how common it really is. I am ashamed to admit that the longer I lived in Saipan, ironically, the easier it was to get lazy and fall into racial/cultural stereotyping of the cultures around you. You think you "know" how "they are" because you see just enough repeated characteristics to create a stereotype. And before you know it you're thinkng "Those damn [fill in racial/cultural group], they always. . . ."

I'm not proud of it, but I really don't think I'm different than most people in that regard. But I do think the first step to dealing with this more insidious "soft racism" is to acknowledge it, at least to oneself. To continuing harping on and on about how "I'm not racist" is silly and to be frank I'm automatically doubtful of people who feel the need to trumpet too loudly their lack of racism. Likewise to continue banging on that there is NO racism in the Tea Party is equally silly.

I guess that's why I liked the movie Crash (apologies to Irvine on that. . .believe it or not, but that was one of the first things I ever discussed in Interference with Irvine. . .it's been six years now! Wow! He was not pleased that Brokeback Mountain got passed over by the Academy in favor of Crash, and indeed with the passage of time and repeat viewings of Crash, I actually agree with him that Brokeback actually was better. Crash really was too hamhanded, but I digress. Despite it's obviousness, I did like it's basic premise about human nature).
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:06 AM   #86
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I've never seen 'Crash', and only bits and pieces of 'Brokeback Mountain'. But yeah, I do remember the massive controversy around that.

Anywho, excellent post, Sean. Depending on where one lives and how much exposure they have to other people, stereotypes and racial/quasi-racial attitudes are very likely to spread.

I've lived in a lot of towns whose populations are almost completely white. Trust me. I know this. The town I live in now is probably the most diverse one. Either that or maybe the area of Colorado I lived in, 'cause a lot of people from other parts of the world came there during ski season. And even then that's not saying a whole lot. It's like when Obama made that comment a few years ago about small towns and people clinging to their guns and religion, and everyone got in a big ol' fuss about it.

Well, I lived in those small towns. And people got really outraged by his comments...only to then turn around and essentially prove him right.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:16 AM   #87
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You make some good points, Sean, but there's a difference between racism and prejudice. I think much of what you wrote is better described as prejudice. I know it sounds a bit like I'm just arguing semantics and I guess I am, but racism is much more nefarious. It's not unrealistic for someone to claim they aren't racist
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:18 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
take your Tea Party hate and your double standards to the Tea Party thread.


i know, i know ... Joe Biden said something stupid, therefore the entire Tea Party is vindicated.

Joe Biden was called out by *everyone* for that comment, as he should have been.

no GOP politician will dare say anything negative about the Tea Party.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:22 AM   #89
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I find it interesting that living in a diverse cultural environment doesn't in and of itself guarantee that racism will evaporate. I think any overcoming of racism has to be a conscious choice. It doesn't just happen by virtue of who you are surrounded by. At least that's my experience.

I've always been that trophy Black Friend, because I don't talk with a black accent, I'm you know well-spoken and clean cut, articulate, don't have "chip on my shoulder" I like U2 (I have to admit attending the last three U2 concerts has been one of the very few times when I've been consciously aware that I was in the utter minority. When there are 80,000 fans and it seems like there are exactly five black people there--including me--you notice! The first show was in Japan so that was a different story--I probably felt less out of place there. But I digress. I'm rambling a lot. Maybe I need to go to bed now.)

Growing up I had a few blatantly racist "friends" who were totally fine with me because I wasn't "like the rest of them." I was a "good one." I was actually told that. More than once.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:23 AM   #90
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You make some good points, Sean, but there's a difference between racism and prejudice. I think much of what you wrote is better described as prejudice. I know it sounds a bit like I'm just arguing semantics and I guess I am, but racism is much more nefarious. It's not unrealistic for someone to claim they aren't racist
i can appreciate this distinction. racism seems more active, whereas prejudice is more passive.

one reason i bang on about this is that part of my coming out process was coming to grips with my own internalized homophobia. i sometimes find myself thinking homophobic things despite being a homo myself. it's something we all do. and the best thing is to recognize it, call it out, realize that we're all guilty to some degree of these things, it's how our brains work. so we deal with it.
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