Early morning, July 20 - shot rings out in Aurora Colorado - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-27-2012, 05:43 PM   #91
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,279
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel617 View Post
No, how about just mandatory screenings every year for those that choose to own a firearm.
Who is going to pay for these? The government is essentially broke so unless you want the gun owners themselves funding a large scale bureacratic process, not sure how feasible it is.

Furthermore, what if somebody fails? You don't renew their licence but they get to keep their 7 assault rifles?
__________________

__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 05:44 PM   #92
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
If such a law were passed in the US, it would be struck down. Any real change in gun ownership policy would require a constitutional amendment.
Or 5 liberal justices appointed by a president who is "so over" a constitution that limits the powers and scope of government.
__________________

__________________
INDY500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 05:45 PM   #93
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Yeah, the guns can't be taken away when the permit is

Don't think a mentally ill person is going to stop and say "oops, I can't use this gun because they took my permit away".
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 09:47 PM   #94
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 03:26 AM
If he is deemed to be severely mental ill, for example a paranoid schizophrenic, and if a clear link between the illness and the cause of the shootings is established, then the morally correct punishment is basically zero time in jail and court mandated pyschiatric treatment, followed by carefully controlled release into the community with perhaps a government assisted identity change to lessen the chance of vigilantism.

Unfortunately, this probably won't happen - as a society, we are in the dark ages regarding treatment of severe mental illness. I am looking at this from the point of view of preaching to Americans - Europe really isn't any better, though it's probably more difficult in most countries, to access weaponry of the type that this guy was able to, seemingly with relative ease.
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 09:50 PM   #95
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,035
Local Time: 01:26 PM
He killed a dozen people and ruined the lives of many more. Mental illness doesn't excuse that, for me.
__________________
cobl04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 09:55 PM   #96
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
He killed a dozen people and ruined the lives of many more. Mental illness doesn't excuse that, for me.
Habe you ever considered a career as a tabloid media headline writer?
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 10:03 PM   #97
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,035
Local Time: 01:26 PM
I hate the tabloids, and I agree the way we care for those with mental illnesses is way behind what it should be, but I don't have sympathy for someone who murdered 12 people in cold blood, I'm sorry.
__________________
cobl04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 11:28 PM   #98
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,236
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
I hate the tabloids, and I agree the way we care for those with mental illnesses is way behind what it should be, but I don't have sympathy for someone who murdered 12 people in cold blood, I'm sorry.
That's a different scenario than the one financeguy was presenting, though. If fg's hypothetical is accurate, and it was indeed mental illness that caused Holmes to go on this rampage, and the illness is such that it essentially removed his ability to rationally judge right from wrong, then I think it would be difficult to say that he murdered these people "in cold blood."

Granted that's a big if, and this is all a hypothetical outcome as of now. But perhaps the reason we as a society don't care for those with mental illness all that well is due to responses like this, where, even if we're aware that mentall illness played a part, our gut instinct is to forget that and make the "cold-blooded" killer pay, tossing out any attempt at addressing the actual root causes.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 11:31 PM   #99
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 10:26 PM
From what I understand, sometimes the mentally ill are aware of what they are doing but can't control the madness in their minds. That madness then takes over their rationale and the lose touch with reality. If that was the case with Holmes, then personally I could only wish he had gotten help before whatever illness he might have had ruined him.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 11:35 PM   #100
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
I am looking at this from the point of view of preaching to Americans - Europe really isn't any better, though it's probably more difficult in most countries, to access weaponry of the type that this guy was able to, seemingly with relative ease.
Just to clarify, what I meant to post was, I am not looking at this point of view of preaching to Americans, etc.
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 11:55 PM   #101
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,279
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
I hate the tabloids, and I agree the way we care for those with mental illnesses is way behind what it should be, but I don't have sympathy for someone who murdered 12 people in cold blood, I'm sorry.
Paranoid schizophrenics don't kill in cold blood. They are deeply, seriously mentally ill.

I had an aunt who was a violent paranoid schizophrenic. She had to attempt suicide 4 times before she succeeded. You have no idea how ill these people are.
__________________
anitram is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 12:04 AM   #102
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBK-79 View Post
A lot of people, especially the victims' families, insist that the shooter should be given zero media attention.

However, shouldn't there be some focus on Holmes in order to make an attempt to study and understand what's going on in these killers' minds?

This way, we may be able to detect red flags and become more proactive to intervene before someone else does something stupid.

I know I'm really reaching here. But I find it disturbing how "mental health issues" are often placed on the back burner in tragedies like this.
Absolutely we should try and get to the root of what caused this. No argument that alongside the gun control discussion, we also desperately need to talk more about mental illness and the factors that lead people to commit such crimes.

And I do think there can be a way for the media to talk about such an issue. The problem is, with our current media landscape, it won't turn out so well. We'll sensationalize it, it'll seem like if you want attention on a grand scale, this is how you go about doing it. That's not to say I blame the media for people going on rampages-people that messed up in the head would do it no matter what. But I do think that the excessive attention we give criminals in the press doesn't help matters, either-they turn them into celebrities of sorts, and they shouldn't be.

We need to be able to discuss empathy and concern for people who are mentally ill while at the same time making it clear just how horrible any crimes they've committed are. I feel for people who are mentally ill. I do. I think they deserve all the help and therapy and such that they need. But the guy still brutally killed a bunch of innocent people, and he does need to answer for that crime.

Also, for what it's worth, I heard this site mentioned on TV the other night-worth a look if you're interested:
We Are Better Than This
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 12:20 AM   #103
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,714
Local Time: 06:26 PM
I think it's important to identify (as best as possible) when mental illness is a factor. I personally don't think it should mean they aren't punished for the crimes they commit, but it should factor in to the punishment given.

Not that I have any idea what the "right" punishment would be - is it like jail that's actually treatment? I don't know. I don't think the death penalty or "lock 'em up and throw away the key" are good options.
__________________
corianderstem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 04:48 AM   #104
The Fly
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: end of the yellow brick road.
Posts: 166
Local Time: 07:26 PM
What irritates me though, is when someone that is really sane, goes to trial, and they start using the mental illness excuse.

It makes it harder for people with a genuine mental illness.
__________________
notsomadLisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 06:03 AM   #105
War Child
 
Dfit00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 893
Local Time: 10:26 PM
I wonder if Holmes will receive the death penalty due to the number of victims murdered.

The death penalty has been so vaguely interpreted and applied, like in the Troy Davis case, in which he supposedly murdered only one man even though he remained innocent, a trial that lasted for over 20 years until he was finally executed.
__________________

__________________
Dfit00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com