Early morning, July 20 - shot rings out in Aurora Colorado - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-25-2012, 09:35 AM   #46
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An interesting viewpoint on the gun control debate today:

Batman's Gun: Why the Comic-Book Hero Was Disarmed in 1939 : The New Yorker
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:02 AM   #47
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Wow, Christian Bale is a good guy. That was very kind of him to make the trek to Aurora.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #48
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I think that it is absolutely astounding and depressing that gun control is the one issue in America that is like its sacred cow which cannot and will not be touched by 99.9% of politicians in power. President Obama scurried away from any type of meaningful gun control change as soon as he could after this massacre. Nobody is willing to take it on.

Another thing that we can thank the SCOTUS for is their finding that the second amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected to service in a militia. This is very interesting because we constantly hear from people like INDY about strict constitutional legalism, but when it comes to interpreting the second amendment, then I guess a more liberal application of what words really mean is fine.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:35 AM   #49
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You know, at the time Madison wrote this, a talented shooter could get a max of three shots from a musket pet minute, and barely one a minute with a rifle. In addition, there were violent battles errupting all over the colonies, whether with the British or Native population.

Do you honestly think this quote should apply to gun control laws today?
I think this is a great point to make. Today's weapons are a lot different than the way they were in the late 18th century, and the reason to defend ourselves is also different.

My brother-in-law is really into the right to bear arms. Heck, he's a got a huge stash of rifles in his garage. He says he's exercising his constitutional right to own guns and he only uses them to go hunting, but I get the feeling he's exercising some sort of conservative view of American manhood or something. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think his collection reflects something deeper than just hunting. So if we want gun control, we would have to look hard at our society and see why some Americans are so gun-crazy, like its an extension of themselves.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:04 AM   #50
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You know, at the time Madison wrote this, a talented shooter could get a max of three shots from a musket pet minute, and barely one a minute with a rifle. In addition, there were violent battles errupting all over the colonies, whether with the British or Native population.

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Old 07-25-2012, 11:10 AM   #51
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Did you grow up around a lot of really bad hunters? Who needs a magazine that holds 100 rounds(which is what was found in this shooting) when hunting?
LOL no kidding. Last year my brother and a friend both shot their own buck using the same gun that only had three bullets.

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My brother-in-law is really into the right to bear arms. Heck, he's a got a huge stash of rifles in his garage. He says he's exercising his constitutional right to own guns and he only uses them to go hunting, but I get the feeling he's exercising some sort of conservative view of American manhood or something. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think his collection reflects something deeper than just hunting. So if we want gun control, we would have to look hard at our society and see why some Americans are so gun-crazy, like its an extension of themselves.
I think there are hunters that use guns and then there are people like this. Not all hunters are obsessed with constitutional rights. I suspect if my dad and brother were no longer allowed to legally possess a hunting rifle they would just buy more fishing poles instead. It's just a hobby, like me spending ridiculous amounts of time and money training and competing with dogs. If it wasn't one thing it would be something else. Both of them have more training and taken hunter's safety classes and yet apparently in Michigan you don't need any sort of permit or training to walk around with a pistol (for shooting people) in your purse?
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:49 PM   #52
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I don't know. Didn't seem to stop the guy at the Aurora theater, though. He was hanging out by the back exit at one point.
He entered through a back entrance.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:07 PM   #53
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He sat down in the theatre, then left during the opening credits through a side emergency exit, which he propped open, and came back minutes later.

But that's neither here nor there. There will likely be tighter security during big movie premieres at least.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:30 PM   #54
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This is excellent:

It's the Guns – But We All Know, It's Not Really the Guns | MichaelMoore.com
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #55
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I think that it is absolutely astounding and depressing that gun control is the one issue in America that is like its sacred cow which cannot and will not be touched by 99.9% of politicians in power. President Obama scurried away from any type of meaningful gun control change as soon as he could after this massacre. Nobody is willing to take it on.

Another thing that we can thank the SCOTUS for is their finding that the second amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected to service in a militia. This is very interesting because we constantly hear from people like INDY about strict constitutional legalism, but when it comes to interpreting the second amendment, then I guess a more liberal application of what words really mean is fine.
Agreed. Everyone's saying, "Now isn't the time to discuss this" and "We don't want to politicize the tragedy". The latter belief I can respect, but I still think there's a way to talk about this issue without making a big mess out of it. And if now isn't the time to talk about this issue, then when exactly IS the right time?

I just wish someone who felt they had the "right" to have an entire arsenal of guns could explain what exactly they think they'll need all that stuff for? And I've noticed the Constitution is often very much like the Bible-whether you interpret it literally or not depends on your beliefs and which part(s) of the document mean the most to whatever arguments you support.

Heard that story about Christian Bale visiting the victims this morning on the news-he tried so hard to keep this low-key, but fans on Twitter will out you eventually . Very cool nonetheless. Gotta respect him for that .
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:42 PM   #56
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^^^ya, anything is better than what we have now!!! Today on the radio I heard some numbskull call in to Stephanie Miller's show and say that he couldn't understand how or why no one stopped the guy once he started shooting and that everyone in there should have had a gun, much like that numbskull GOP Congressman from Texas; Gohmert .... said "Aurora shooting ‘terrorist act,’ questions why no one else in theater had a gun" Seriously. Don't people understand how ridiculous that is? Not only would more people have died, but the chaos and panic would have just multiplied. Violence begets violence and I firmly believe that just owning a gun ( IMO) brings the negative energy of violence/fear in to your home and it will manifest in your life eventually.
Yes, I know people protect themselves and homes from intruders, but...I think it's because ( yes I know..this is out there but there is something to this) it's drawn to them by the energy they focus on.
Quick story... when I lived in Panama in Central America, a 3rd world country ( no I was not military, we were civilians) every house on our street got burglarized at one time or another. In the 25 years we lived there, nothing ever happened to us. I think it was the loving energy my parents put out, plus not turning away the beggars that would come to our door... my mother fed them and gave them clothes. It's that loving energy that protected us I am convinced. Yes, I know that is way out there for some of you, but I am just sharing .... food for thought. No rotten tomatoes please.
Lets say five people in the theater had been armed. Would their concealed weapons have been able to penetrate the armor the attacker had on his body? In the confusion, would some of the people in the theater with concealed weapons open fire on each other thinking they were part of the attack? How many shots from people with concealed weapons in the theater would miss their target and hit other innocent people in the theater?

Don't look for Obama to change any gun laws. Can't risk losing Nevada or Colorado this November.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #57
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^^yes, I know. He can't change the laws because unfortunately, the NRA is the largest lobby in the nation and they pay for elections. Can't go upsetting the boys with the dough. On the other hand I think us progressives/liberals need to realize that President Obama can't fix anything because the system is entrenched with corruption. He is not corrupt and that is THE HUGE difference.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:24 PM   #58
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Not a huge Michael Moore fan, but I'm behind him on this matter. We are a people taught that death is a reasonable means of problem-solving. We were raised on guns, and enabled by the Constitution to partake of them. Those figures are less horrifying in that context.

Slow, determined increases in gun regulation and a fundamental shift in how we teach our children about them is the only way we'll wean our country off of guns. The second amendment has been a part of country's history for a couple centuries now, so we can't expect one president to make all the difference. It can't even really be approached with the way the laws are currently set up. That being said, some dialogue would be nice. Obama's already backing off of it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I think that it is absolutely astounding and depressing that gun control is the one issue in America that is like its sacred cow which cannot and will not be touched by 99.9% of politicians in power. President Obama scurried away from any type of meaningful gun control change as soon as he could after this massacre. Nobody is willing to take it on.

Another thing that we can thank the SCOTUS for is their finding that the second amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected to service in a militia. This is very interesting because we constantly hear from people like INDY about strict constitutional legalism, but when it comes to interpreting the second amendment, then I guess a more liberal application of what words really mean is fine.
Reading state constitutions from the 13 states and arguments from the time it is pretty clear they are referring to an individual right. And few would argue that "the right to self-defense" is not a natural law and thus should not be curtailed by a government that respects natural rights.

None of which prohibits waiting periods, restrictions and common sense restrictions in my view.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #60
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None of which prohibits waiting periods, restrictions and common sense restrictions in my view.
I think we will all agree that it would be much more productive if this could be the focus of the debates.
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