Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson on Indefinite Hiatus Following Anti-Gay Remarks - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #46
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It's not see easy as to lump everyone into 2 simple categories and say "I'm in the best group." It's this sort of thinking that creates the "us" vs "them" mentality that's crippling our government.

As polls have shown - most people float around the middle. So, if there are "Two Americas" - then they are more like a Venn Diagram than two distinct circles.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #47
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The Duck Dynasty Fiasco Says More About Our Bigotry Than Phil’s

Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them?

Last night, GQ released a story about Duck Dynasty that quotes Phil Robertson’s thoughts about homosexuality:

“It seems like, to me, a vagina — as a man — would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.”

As you can imagine, everyone had an opinion about this statement, including GLAAD and Phil’s check-signer, A&E, who suspended the star indefinitely.

One of the conservative tweeters I follow — one of those Christians convinced that Obama is going to have him killed for his faith — lives for stuff like this. He quickly took to the Twitterverse and posted a side-by-side image of Pope Francis and Phil, with the following caption: “Both preach truth on homosexual sin. One is TIME’s Person of the Year. The other JUST GOT FIRED.”

The point is worth considering. Even though Phil used crass, juvenile language to articulate his point, what he was getting at was his belief that homosexual “desire” is unnatural and inherently disordered. This opinion isn’t unique to Phil. It’s actually shared by a majority of his fans.

It’s also shared, to some extent, by the Pope. Yes, that Pope — the one on the cover not just of TIME but also of The Advocate.

Of course, The Advocate knows the Pope’s thoughts on LGBT issues, including marriage equality. But as they note, Francis’ “stark change in rhetoric from his two predecessors” has set a positive example for how religious people ought to treat LGBT persons — an example that Phil, an elder at the White’s Ferry Road Church of Christ, ought to have followed in his GQ interview.

To compare Papa Duck to Papa Francis, as conservatives are doing, is, in my opinion, to misrepresent both of them. Francis, though he privately holds to certain doctrine which some might see as “anti-gay,” has not used any of his public-speaking opportunities to share these with the world. Instead, Francis has repeatedly offered grace to the LGBT community. At one point, he even uttered what might go down as the expression of public humility that singlehandedly saved the church: “Who am I to judge?”

Phil, on the other hand, went on record as rhetorically asking how any man could ever enjoy gay intercourse, since vaginal intercourse is better. (Which certainly makes you wonder how he’s able to make the comparison.)

There are two notable differences between the Pope’s views on sex, and Phil’s. First, the Pope is a trained philosopher, and has undoubtedly spent countless hours examining, challenging and refining his views. Phil — if we are to take his brief statements on homosexuality as representative of his position — seems to hold a view on sex that manages to reduce the entire orthodox understanding of “desire” down to nothing more than a juvenile “tooshie = bad, vagina = good.”

The second difference has to do with tone. In fairness to Phil, the tone of his off-the-cuff statements may not accurately represent his philosophy on this issue, but I do think it’s a fair representation of what many see as his Southern charm. There’s a way to disagree with majority opinion without coming across as disagreeable. The Pope knows how to do this. Phil does not. As a result, we respect Papa and shame Phil.

For the record, I’m undecided on whether or not I think Phil actually is homophobic, although I certainly think his statement was offensive, and not only to the LGBT community. But I also think that if I were to spend a day calling ducks with Phil, I’d probably end up liking him — even in spite of his position on gay men. It’s quite possible to throw one’s political support behind traditional, heterosexual marriage, and yet not be bigoted.

I’m reminded of something Bill Maher said during the height of the Paula Deen controversy: “Do we always have to make people go away?” I think the question applies in this situation too.

Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them? One of the biggest pop-culture icons of today just took center stage to “educate” us about sexuality. I see this as an opportunity to further the discussion, to challenge his limited understanding of human desire, to engage with him and his rather sizable audience — most of whom, by the way, probably share his views — and to rise above the endless sea of tweet-hate to help move our LGBT conversations to where they need to go.

G.K. Chesterton said that bigotry is “an incapacity to conceive seriously the alternative to a proposition.” If he is right — and he usually is — then I wonder if the Duck Dynasty fiasco says more about our bigotry than Phil’s.

Brandon Ambrosino is a writer and professional dancer based in Baltimore.
The 'Duck Dynasty' Fiasco Says More About Our Bigotry Than Phil's | TIME.com

What I also find interesting, yet unsurprising is that the part he said after is left out by most, including the article I posted which was trying to defend him:

Quote:
"However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Speaking as a same-sex rights advocate, I feel it's important not to demonize those who have an opposing view. Not all are bigots. I've seen a lot of them, and Phil definitely isn't one. Misguided, definitely, but I think his comments were way-overblown and taken out of context, and the fact that he's not the most eloquently spoken either doesn't help.

Instead of firing him, I think using this as an opportunity to have a conversation would have been way more productive. All this has done is further entrench those who share Phil's belief.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:25 PM   #48
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I don't think there should really be a massive uproar about his comments, he can speak his mind. But there also shouldn't be a huge uproar over A&E's reaction, because they have him under contract and they can do whatever they want with him. He can speak his mind but should be ready to face repercussions by the network that made his rich.

I think GLAAD should've kept out of this one in terms of mentioning A&E and sponsors in their statement, since it reads as if they're calling for him to be fired. IT's like stooping down to desperate Sarah Palin's level. (Where was she when Martin Bashir was fired by CNN for his comments about her? It was his "free speech" after all...)

It's fine to slam his comments and offer a retort, but keep the network out of it, especially since they suspended him anyway.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:37 PM   #49
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His recent comments could be said not to be necessarily "hateful" (ignorant, yes; I'm sorry, Bible back-up or no, his comments on sexuality and race were ignorant), but today I'm reading that he's said some downright hateful things regarding sexuality in the past (in a 2010 sermon, I believe).

So.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/19/phil-r...hobia-a-and-e/

"Phil calls gay people shameful, perverse, heartless, faithless, senseless God haters ... "

Dude is totally respectful of everyone ... even those heartless, faithless, senseless gays!
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
It's not see easy as to lump everyone into 2 simple categories and say "I'm in the best group." It's this sort of thinking that creates the "us" vs "them" mentality that's crippling our government.

As polls have shown - most people float around the middle. So, if there are "Two Americas" - then they are more like a Venn Diagram than two distinct circles.
I'm not so sure this is totally true.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:07 PM   #51
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If he had said something as offensive about blacks and/or Jews, the NAACP and the ADL would have been all over it in the way that GLAAD was. (And he made fairly offensive remarks about blacks anyway). And everyone would have understood.

While I have some issues with GLAAD and the HRC, I have to admire the fact that they are now every bit as organized and powerful as the NAACP and the ADL. They aren't going to let anyone get away with talking smack about gay people. It's enormous progress for the last socially acceptable minority to outwardly bash.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:09 AM   #52
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People should not be persecuted or lose their livelihoods for their religious beliefs, at least not in America.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:22 AM   #53
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I'm pretty sure he was already making a decent living before the show started.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
The 'Duck Dynasty' Fiasco Says More About Our Bigotry Than Phil's | TIME.com

What I also find interesting, yet unsurprising is that the part he said after is left out by most, including the article I posted which was trying to defend him:



Speaking as a same-sex rights advocate, I feel it's important not to demonize those who have an opposing view. Not all are bigots. I've seen a lot of them, and Phil definitely isn't one. Misguided, definitely, but I think his comments were way-overblown and taken out of context, and the fact that he's not the most eloquently spoken either doesn't help.

Instead of firing him, I think using this as an opportunity to have a conversation would have been way more productive. All this has done is further entrench those who share Phil's belief.
Great article, the writer certainly has a point that it's better to educate rather than fight fire with fire. Then again, the guy would have to be open to learning, and from the way he portrays his comments it doesn't quite seem to be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
His recent comments could be said not to be necessarily "hateful" (ignorant, yes; I'm sorry, Bible back-up or no, his comments on sexuality and race were ignorant), but today I'm reading that he's said some downright hateful things regarding sexuality in the past (in a 2010 sermon, I believe).

So.

Phil Robertson Publicly Bashed Gays for Years -- A&E Knew All About It | TMZ.com

"Phil calls gay people shameful, perverse, heartless, faithless, senseless God haters ... "

Dude is totally respectful of everyone ... even those heartless, faithless, senseless gays!
Gee what a jolly old fella.

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Originally Posted by deep View Post
People should not be persecuted or lose their livelihoods for their religious beliefs, at least not in America.
Sure, but they could if they VOICED those beliefs in public when they go against their bosses views and offend large groups of people. Religion is something personal. Keep it to yourself and everybody's happy.
If you go around spouting hateful stuff about blacks or jews, you'd be fired from your job and your boss would have every right to. This case isn't different.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:07 AM   #55
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People should not be persecuted or lose their livelihoods for their religious beliefs, at least not in America.

In america, A&E is a person, and his bottom line was threatened. And that man signed a contract written by a lawyer. A lawyer!

Take your rights somewhere else.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:29 AM   #56
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Rumor has it, if A&E drops the show - "Duck Dynasty" will start airing on the Fox News Channel - right after the new animated series, "Lego Hannity and Friends."
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #57
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"Lego Hannity and Friends."
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #58
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On a radio program Thursday liberal feminist professor and columnist Camille Paglia commented on the controversy over the remarks made by Phil Robertson:

"I speak with authority here because I was openly gay before the 'Stonewall Rebellion,' when it cost you something to be so," she said. "And I personally feel as a libertarian that people have the right to free thought and free speech. In a democratic country, people have the right to be homophobic as they have the right to support homosexuality -- as I 100 percent do. If people are basing their views against gays on the Bible, again they have a right to religious freedom there … to express yourself in a magazine in an interview -– this is the level of punitive PC, utterly fascist, utterly Stalinist, OK, that my liberal colleagues in the Democratic party and on college campuses have supported and promoted over the last several decades. It's the whole legacy of the free speech 1960's that have been lost by my own party."

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...ist-PC-Culture
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #59
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Why does her being openly gay give her any sort of autority?
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #60
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I don't understand why anyone thinks that his has anything to do with free speech rights. The duck guy has every right to say something homophobic, and A&E, having a fiduciary duty to its shareholder to maximize profit, has every right to not give him money anymore. Nobody's free speech is being violated.
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