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Old 06-18-2010, 06:22 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Moser View Post
Perhaps, collapsing the well by explosives will create fissures in the oil cavern ceiling....well, then yes, the risk is ridiculous. But I really don't know why they don't go this route. I know it has been considered...but why turned down?

aren't you contradicting yourself?

I mean OMG... if the explosion could cause more fissures in the oil cavern ceiling? would the deep water pressures hold down these cracks? What if a bigger gap happened and more oil poured out quicker in a wider area?

and we're also dealing with incredible pressures down there.
What effect would that have on the interaction between explosion, water pressure and the now upward pressure of the escaping oil?


Seems way too risky to me. I'd have to hear a hell of a lot of top NON-OIL Industry Scientists of geophysical/nuclear/oceanography etc kinds talk about this.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:32 PM   #257
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There is a 15,000 foot long pipe gushing oil out uncontrollably. Drill a hole a few thousand feet down, place some shaped charged explosives, and you may end up shearing rock enough to pinch the pipe shut.
.
This at least sounds somewhat more sensible.

But again gotta bring in Non Oil-Industry Geophysicists , Oceanographers/ Explosive Experts etc to talk together.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #258
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what do you want? government regulation or not?
I know, I know. You're either with us, or you're against us. You're either for govt regulation, or zero regulation. Black and white.
We're fans of nuance around here, right?

YouTube - Jindal

Gov. Jindal is an executive. He seems to get it.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:46 PM   #259
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YB I am so sorry your area is going through such havoc (the fast and the slower kind) again!

I haven't seen enough of your posts to have made a decision on where your are along the political spectrum.... but you did say some sensible things about Bush & Co.

As for President Obabma.... I agree with MLA that the has picked certain people he should get rid of of.

And even a very smart person like him, doesn't have expertise across the board (usually) --though his smartness would tend toward him absorbing new material easier.

He had/s so much to fix (my POV), then having something like this happen on top of everything else; especially when the secondary oil ?pipe(or well), and an acoustic back- up switch emergency switch to close off the pipe while demanded in other countries to prevent what happened from happening...
.... were just sloughed off by Bush/Chenney.
SO BP could get away with not installing either, or both here in the Gulf!

I don't if it's been mentioned but BP was the company that was supposed to clean up in thw Exxon Valdize disaster. Exxon was angry at how lousy a job BP did .
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:57 PM   #260
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I know, I know. You're either with us, or you're against us. You're either for govt regulation, or zero regulation. Black and white.
We're fans of nuance around here, right?
nuance

This is exactly how conservatives have been framing the situation for years, please don't pretend otherwise.




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Gov. Jindal is an executive. He seems to get it.
Actually, he doesn't get it and he's lying through his teeth to make a political point.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:00 PM   #261
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Any Hannity fans out there? I don't get him. Maybe someone can help me out, today he talked about how the Federal Government shouldn't be intervening... as if the free market is going to clean this shit up But then goes on later to say Obama failed.

So which way is it? Why can't these guys speak without contradiction or hypocricy?
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:50 PM   #262
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Any Hannity fans out there? I don't get him. Maybe someone can help me out, today he talked about how the Federal Government shouldn't be intervening... as if the free market is going to clean this shit up But then goes on later to say Obama failed.

So which way is it? Why can't these guys speak without contradiction or hypocricy?
Because their purpose is pure propaganda. Their purpose is to simply control the message, from beginning to end, and to distort the truth (past the point that any reasonable person could keep a straight face), so that they make up peoples' minds for them before those people can form any opinion of their own. Their audience wants to hate. They just give them some BS dressed up as facts that allow them to hate.

My favorite contradiction of Hannity's is utterly laughable and is played out daily (on alternating days). It goes like this...

Day 1: Spew out that Obama is the most inconsequential and ineffective president in the history of the USA. Assert that he has done absolutely nothing, has not passed any meaningful laws, has not brought about any meaningful initiatives, etc. (never mind that his opponents plan has been, from the day of his inauguration, to fight anything he proposes, no matter if it's good for the nation or not). Allow a few poorly spoken, and easily out-argued Obama supporters to call into the show. When they do, don't allow them to speak or ask any questions -- only repeatedly interrogate them over and over, while interrupting them, "Name one thing he's done! Name one thing he's done!" Drive home that Obama is a lazy elite who just wants to party with the Hollywood set.

Day 2: Panic! Sound the alarm! Grab your weapons and form a militia! The Constitution, and everything our founding fathers fought for and built, is under greater imminent threat than it has been in over 200 years (more than a threat than the Civil War, the Nazis, the Soviet Union, and Al Quada combined)! Obama has a plan, and he has been executing it with daily precision. The plan is to dismantle the liberties of Americans and set up a socialist dictatorship! Can't you see everything he has already done?! He is already half-way there while we've been sleeping! (Have teary housewives call in and weep that, "I just don't know what is happening to our country! Is it already too late?")

Repeat Day 1 and Day 2 every day in alternating fashion. Pay no mind to the galactically stupid contradiction of the two.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:13 PM   #263
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Cracks Show BP Battled Well Two Months Before Blast (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

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June 17 (Bloomberg) -- BP Plc was struggling to seal cracks in its Macondo well as far back as February, more than two months before an explosion killed 11 and spewed oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

It took 10 days to plug the first cracks, according to reports BP filed with the Minerals Management Service that were later delivered to congressional investigators. Cracks in the surrounding rock continued to complicate the drilling operation during the ensuing weeks. Left unsealed, they can allow explosive natural gas to rush up the shaft.

“Once they realized they had oil down there, all the decisions they made were designed to get that oil at the lowest cost,” said Peter Galvin of the Center for Biological Diversity, which has been working with congressional investigators probing the disaster. “It’s been a doomed voyage from the beginning.”

BP didn’t respond to calls and e-mails seeking comment. The company’s shares rose 22 pence to 359 pence today in London after the company struck a deal with the Obama administration yesterday to establish a $20 billion fund to pay cleanup costs and compensation. BP has lost 45 percent of its market value since the catastrophe.

On Feb. 13, BP told the minerals service it was trying to seal cracks in the well about 40 miles (64 kilometers) off the Louisiana coast, drilling documents obtained by Bloomberg show. Investigators are still trying to determine whether the fissures played a role in the disaster.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:07 PM   #264
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But please, continue to apologize to BP, for as soon as they became aware of the cracks they stopped and... oh wait, no they didn't stop. Well at least they took responsibility at first... oh wait, no that didn't happen either.

Well oil is organic and accidents happen so let's continue to apologize to BP.


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Old 06-19-2010, 08:24 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Moser, I thought I made myself very clear, I wasn't proceeding on assumptions. If you don't know all the variables than a bomb is not the choice. I'm not sure how much clearer one can make that.

Like I said:



Your quote says the exact same thing.
Sigh, I concur. Sometimes I go on rant mode and get out of line. I'm more frustrated on the lack of information available, but what can be expected when they can't even nail down the figures on how much oil is leaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
you're asking how introducing radioactive materials to an oil spill will make things worse?

are you thinking the people of the gulf coast aren't happy with black beaches, but there will be happy with glow in the dark green ones?
Any radioactive materials will be buried far beneath the ocean floor. Plus, they are low radiation nuclear devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzledbylight View Post

aren't you contradicting yourself?

I mean OMG... if the explosion could cause more fissures in the oil cavern ceiling? would the deep water pressures hold down these cracks? What if a bigger gap happened and more oil poured out quicker in a wider area?

and we're also dealing with incredible pressures down there.
What effect would that have on the interaction between explosion, water pressure and the now upward pressure of the escaping oil?
I apologize. Sounded like I'm contradicting myself. Sometimes when I type without thinking, the words don't come together as I would hope. I meant to say, if the risk was clear that an explosion would fracture the oil cavern's ceiling, then NO...let's not go that route. But I wonder if anybody has real information on this option, so we can know what risks are out there.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:57 PM   #266
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BP CEO GOES SAILING
OBAMA GOES GOLFING

I am really getting tire of the Drudge and other headlines

this thing is going to last months,
and aside from the first few days,
what emergency response requires the head people to be in lock down in a situation/ command room?

yes, they need to stay on top of it, and let the public know that everything than can be done, is being done

are they supposed to leave the office and go to a church and pray all night
and then log on to dawn.com and buy some dish soap and go chase down an otter and give it a bath?
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:59 PM   #267
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the VRWC is alive and kicking
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:30 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
I am really getting tire of the Drudge and other headlines

this thing is going to last months,
and aside from the first few days,
what emergency response requires the head people to be in lock down in a situation/ command room?

yes, they need to stay on top of it, and let the public know that everything than can be done, is being done

are they supposed to leave the office and go to a church and pray all night
and then log on to dawn.com and buy some dish soap and go chase down an otter and give it a bath?
Me too!

great observation, deep!
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:45 PM   #269
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Florida fishermen find dead Humpback Whale, first dead whale since disaster started.

Although Authorities are not speculating on cause of death, talk at the Marina yesterday was oil was found coming out of whales mouth. I have a very bad feeling this will become commonplace in the coming weeks. This is truly hard to get my head around all of this.

In the meantime, we really should apologize to BP, I mean the sorry SOB's have been trying the absolute damnest to try and spin this as no big deal and failing. With all of the campaign funds going to true-blue Americans like Mr. Barton they really shouldn't be held accountable for any of this, poor bastards.
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:47 PM   #270
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Gulf disaster needs divine intervention as man's efforts have been futile. Gulf lawmakers designate today Day of Prayer for solution/miracle
Twitter / Sarah Palin: Gulf disaster needs divine ...

Sarah Palin strikes again.
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