Don't be that Guy

[AliEnvy]

Booze-fuelled sex assaults targeted - Canada - Canoe.ca

This is the first time a sexual assault prevention campaign has centered around the offender, not the victim.

"When a woman is sexually assaulted, she'll go through a list in her mind and blame herself saying What on earth did I do wrong? I must have forgotten one of the rules" says Karen Smith of the Sexual Assault Centre of Edmonton, also at Friday's launch.

"This innovative SAVE committee believes that as long as society directs prevention strategies at women, we all stop looking at what the real problem is - the perpetrators."

Past campaigns have given tips to women on how to prevent sexual assault induced by drugs and alcohol but have proven to had minimal impact.

"Tips just reinforce the myth that somehow women are responsible for anticipating and preventing sexual violence," Smith says.

 

[corianderstem]

 

[Purplereign]

and fingers crossed that it has the desired affect

 

[kafrun]

Very glad to see this. Let's hope it's the start of a trend and a change in attitude.

 

[corianderstem]

Honestly, I'm not going to hold my breath that much is going to change. But it's nice to see an ad campaign that's not aimed at women with the list of "DON'Ts".

I'm not even going to hold my breath that we get this ad campaign down in the States.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

FINALLY. I've been saying the exact same thing for some time now, nice to see others out there think the same way . I've no problem with continuing to teach women how to keep themselves safe, but yeah, seriously, there can't be a crime if there isn't someone there willing to commit one in the first place.

That's an awesome idea. I really hope it does catch on and at least starts a conversation. More people need to see this.

Angela

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think it's sad that we have to have ads like that in 2010. Guys know not to be that guy-and the ones who don't (that these ads are presumably aimed at) certainly should. And others should be telling them not to be. Like other guys, parents, friends, etc.

 

[corianderstem]

Yeah, they SHOULD know, but sadly, there are many men who think that it can't be rape if the woman isn't screaming and fighting, and he's not forcibly holding her down. Not all rape is violent rape, and that's part of the point of this campaign.

 

[jonnytakeawalk]

I think it's sad that we have to have ads like that in 2010. Guys know not to be that guy-and the ones who don't (that these ads are presumably aimed at) certainly should. And others should be telling them not to be. Like other guys, parents, friends, etc.

These ads remind me of this Ricky Gervais stand up, 'what sort of society has to remind someone not to rape?"

YouTube - Ricky Gervais Fame - RAPE

'Was there people in court with the judge going, why did you rape her?'
'I forgot.' 'You'd forget your head if it wasn't screwed on now get out of here you little scamp.'

 

[Liesje]

That sort of thing is predatory regardless of whether she was passed out at a party or full conscious and taken against her will. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it that some "men" really don't see it as rape. A sexual predator may not see it as rape, but a "man" knows better.

 

[financeguy]

That sort of thing is predatory regardless of whether she was passed out at a party or full conscious and taken against her will. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it that some "men" really don't see it as rape. A sexual predator may not see it as rape, but a "man" knows better.

Agreed completely, Liesje. And I'm sceptical that an advertising campaign is going to change the behaviour of those sexual predator types that are responsible for the vast majority of rapes. A small proportion of men do this, it's just they tend to be repeat offenders. Personally, I reckon they are sociopaths/pyschopaths.

 

[nathan1977]

 

[AliEnvy]

A gentleman certainly wouldn't take advantage of a woman who's had too much to drink. There are others who would and likely wouldn't consider themselves as sexual predators. That's the target audience.

 

[Liesje]

I understand, and I'm not really against the ad per se, but I agree with financeguy. I don't really care whether a sexual predator considers himself one or not, he (or she) is plain and simple. If it's not raping someone that's passed out then it's probably physically overpowering someone walking home alone. I do not think rapist and predators are defined or categorized based on their victim's level of consciousness. For me there is not a "spectrum" of any sort. Rape is rape, and I still maintain that a normal man knows the difference regardless of the scenario. I guess the ads don't hurt but honestly I don't see them actually changing the minds of a sexual predator. I don't see a guy looking at that and going, "oh, really? OK...."

 

[AliEnvy]

I don't really care whether a sexual predator considers himself one or not, he (or she) is plain and simple. If it's not raping someone that's passed out then it's probably physically overpowering someone walking home alone. I do not think rapist and predators are defined or categorized based on their victim's level of consciousness. For me there is not a "spectrum" of any sort. Rape is rape, and I still maintain that a normal man knows the difference regardless of the scenario.

From the OP article:

A recent study out of the United Kingdom involving 18- to 25-year-old men showed that 48% of the men didn't consider it rape if a woman is too drunk to know what was going on. And 46% did not consider it to be rape if a women changed her mind during sex. A quarter did not consider it rape if a women said no from the very start.

 

[BVS]

Those numbers are startling.

 

[Liesje]

Startling but they don't change my opinion one bit, especially considering the long history of humanity's suppression and exploitation of women. Because X-amount of people think one way about something makes it OK or normal or somehow excusable?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

"A recent study out of the United Kingdom involving 18- to 25-year-old men showed that 48% of the men didn't consider it rape if a woman is too drunk to know what was going on. And 46% did not consider it to be rape if a women changed her mind during sex. A quarter did not consider it rape if a women said no from the very start. "

Very depressing. But it's not just men-it's some courts, some juries, some women. Yes, women. I want to believe in the goodness and intelligence and humanity of people, but reality doesn't always work that way.

 

[AliEnvy]

Because X-amount of people think one way about something makes it OK or normal or somehow excusable?

Of course not. But when you look at numbers like that you have to stop and consider that whatever the current methods are for teaching "normal" young men what is and isn't rape are clearly not working properly.

Sure, as financeguy said, there will always be the few who disregard right and wrong. This campaign isn't about them.

It's about those who aren't clear on the boundaries. And those who seem to take that clarity for granted.

 

[Liesje]

Is it something that needs to be taught? That's an honest question, I'm not a guy. Is the "default" that you can have sex with a passed out person unless you are explicit taught/told otherwise?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Is the "default" that you can have sex with a passed out person unless you are explicit taught/told otherwise?

I certainly hope not-but maybe for some people it is.

 

[yolland]

I did a little Googling to track down the "recent study" in question. As it turns out, it was an online survey, commissioned by a London rape crisis center and conducted by a market research company of the 'contest site' type (anyone can register, then you fill out as many surveys as you wish, getting entered in a prize drawing each time). For nonprofit organizations, this can be an affordable way to generate some publicity while also garnering information pertinent to their cause; however, the standard of research design and reporting is often quite low, as indeed is the case here. E.g.--they don't tell you how many respondents were men and how many women, and they don't share how the questions were worded nor the answer options formatted (though you can somewhat surmise the latter from reading the report--it appears that many were formatted in the form of, for instance, "Which of the following do you consider rape? Click all boxes that apply," and they then categorically interpreted any boxes left blank as "No, I don't consider this rape"). Etc., etc.

I also wanted to point out that the 48% figure cited by the article is incorrect: according to the report text, "6% of men would try to have sex if the other person was drunk." (The only other reference to drunkenness in the survey was, "2% of men, compared to 1% of women, assume their partner wants to have sex if they are drunk or not conscious.") The other two stats are in there.

Unfortunately, this is a notoriously difficult topic on which to gather truly useful information about public opinion; men and women often interpret the questions quite differently (for instance, "Would I consider all situations fitting this description rape?" as opposed to "If this happened to me, would I consider it rape?"), and thus, extended followup interviews with at least some of the participants would be ideal; yet, by the nature of the topic, there's a very strong tendency to say only what you feel the interviewer "wants" to hear.

The OP ad campaign is a great idea regardless.

 

[AliEnvy]

I also wanted to point out that the 48% figure cited by the article is incorrect:

They seemed to have pulled that out of nowhere which is a relief. Even though the survey is not rigidly scientific, there are some gaps between perceptions of rape and consent between the genders that would benefit from a campaign directed at men.

 

[BVS]

Thanks Yolland for clearing some of that up, those numbers seemed way too high...