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Old 11-22-2010, 08:51 AM   #16
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Those numbers are startling.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:01 AM   #17
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Startling but they don't change my opinion one bit, especially considering the long history of humanity's suppression and exploitation of women. Because X-amount of people think one way about something makes it OK or normal or somehow excusable?
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:10 AM   #18
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"A recent study out of the United Kingdom involving 18- to 25-year-old men showed that 48% of the men didn't consider it rape if a woman is too drunk to know what was going on. And 46% did not consider it to be rape if a women changed her mind during sex. A quarter did not consider it rape if a women said no from the very start. "

Very depressing. But it's not just men-it's some courts, some juries, some women. Yes, women. I want to believe in the goodness and intelligence and humanity of people, but reality doesn't always work that way.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:29 AM   #19
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Because X-amount of people think one way about something makes it OK or normal or somehow excusable?
Of course not. But when you look at numbers like that you have to stop and consider that whatever the current methods are for teaching "normal" young men what is and isn't rape are clearly not working properly.

Sure, as financeguy said, there will always be the few who disregard right and wrong. This campaign isn't about them.

It's about those who aren't clear on the boundaries. And those who seem to take that clarity for granted.
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:03 AM   #20
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Is it something that needs to be taught? That's an honest question, I'm not a guy. Is the "default" that you can have sex with a passed out person unless you are explicit taught/told otherwise?
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:15 AM   #21
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Is the "default" that you can have sex with a passed out person unless you are explicit taught/told otherwise?
I certainly hope not-but maybe for some people it is.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:49 PM   #22
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I did a little Googling to track down the "recent study" in question. As it turns out, it was an online survey, commissioned by a London rape crisis center and conducted by a market research company of the 'contest site' type (anyone can register, then you fill out as many surveys as you wish, getting entered in a prize drawing each time). For nonprofit organizations, this can be an affordable way to generate some publicity while also garnering information pertinent to their cause; however, the standard of research design and reporting is often quite low, as indeed is the case here. E.g.--they don't tell you how many respondents were men and how many women, and they don't share how the questions were worded nor the answer options formatted (though you can somewhat surmise the latter from reading the report--it appears that many were formatted in the form of, for instance, "Which of the following do you consider rape? Click all boxes that apply," and they then categorically interpreted any boxes left blank as "No, I don't consider this rape"). Etc., etc.

I also wanted to point out that the 48% figure cited by the article is incorrect: according to the report text, "6% of men would try to have sex if the other person was drunk." (The only other reference to drunkenness in the survey was, "2% of men, compared to 1% of women, assume their partner wants to have sex if they are drunk or not conscious.") The other two stats are in there.

Unfortunately, this is a notoriously difficult topic on which to gather truly useful information about public opinion; men and women often interpret the questions quite differently (for instance, "Would I consider all situations fitting this description rape?" as opposed to "If this happened to me, would I consider it rape?"), and thus, extended followup interviews with at least some of the participants would be ideal; yet, by the nature of the topic, there's a very strong tendency to say only what you feel the interviewer "wants" to hear.

The OP ad campaign is a great idea regardless.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:16 PM   #23
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I also wanted to point out that the 48% figure cited by the article is incorrect:
They seemed to have pulled that out of nowhere which is a relief. Even though the survey is not rigidly scientific, there are some gaps between perceptions of rape and consent between the genders that would benefit from a campaign directed at men.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:46 PM   #24
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Thanks Yolland for clearing some of that up, those numbers seemed way too high...
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