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Old 04-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #181
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a cross between Washington and Franklin
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:58 PM   #182
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Franklin Graham: Trump Might be Candidate of Choice

that seals the deal for me.
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:36 PM   #183
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The founding fathers never designed a two party system.

We need more choices. We wont get them.

We. Are. Fucked.
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:53 PM   #184
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The founding fathers never designed a two party system.

We need more choices. We wont get them.

We. Are. Fucked.
You can't have a multi-party system in America.

As a people, you are simply not conditioned to work together. The sense of individualism and animosity would merely result in total parliamentary gridlock.
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:37 PM   #185
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A business oriented president would be good, but Romney I am deeply sceptical of.

Can someone just nicely ask Bloomberg to run?
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:39 PM   #186
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You can't have a multi-party system in America.

As a people, you are simply not conditioned to work together. The sense of individualism and animosity would merely result in total parliamentary gridlock.
Are you serious? If you are, the above reads very patronising. The above could be said of many, if not most countries. Politics has always been an art of reconciling competing objectives and forming an uneasy peace or compromise between them.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:40 PM   #187
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Are you serious? If you are, the above reads very patronising. The above could be said of many, if not most countries. Politics has always been an art of reconciling competing objectives and forming an uneasy peace or compromise between them.
I think that it IS true of many nations. But I also think that in North America, there is a much stronger feeling of individualism and individual success - these were nations carved out of the wilderness, often on your own, which haven't had world wars fought on their soil and have had a much lesser incentive to behave in a communal way.

Canada has done well in an economic sense compared to a lot of other places but we are now on our 5th federal election in 10 years. And we now have 4 main parties running (whereas we used to have 5), and as time goes on the Greens will continue to rise from their current 6-7% national polling.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:56 PM   #188
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A business oriented president would be good, but Romney I am deeply sceptical of.

Can someone just nicely ask Bloomberg to run?
A media mogul for president?

Can we get it in writing that he's not just another Berlusconi?
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:46 PM   #189
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The founding fathers never designed a two party system.
True, but from John Adams' presidency on that's been a fixture of our political landscape. For as long as we've had a party system to speak of, it's been two-party, save for transitional phases where one party was dying and another was emerging through splitting.
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But whoever seriously considers the immense extent of territory comprehended within the limits of the United States, together with the variety of its climates, productions, and commerce, the difference of extent, and number of inhabitants in all; the dissimilitude of interest, morals, and politics, in almost every one, will receive it as an intuitive truth, that a consolidated republican form of government therein, can never "form a perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to you and your posterity," for to these objects it must be directed. This unkindred legislature therefore, composed of interests opposite and dissimilar in their nature, will in its exercise, emphatically be like a house divided against itself.
NY Gov. George Clinton, Anti-Federalist Papers (Cato No. 3), 1787


That said, whether a multi-party system necessarily requires (or demonstrates) greater national cohesion is debatable. For example many political scientists would argue that the electoral system used (first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all, proportional representation etc.) is the most critical determinant of which form a party system takes.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:47 PM   #190
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A business oriented president would be good


why? seriously, why? i have so many friend who are all, "the government should be run like a business," but it isn't a business, is it? it's government, something totally different. why do we think that businesspeople are somehow smarter and more capable than the rest of us at doing anything? why are businesspeople the new rock stars, the new sports stars? what on earth has Trump done other than make lots of money? is government's job to make money?

seriously. i have never understood the adulation of the entrepreneur, or even the assumption that the best and the brightest go to Wall Street. i always thought the greediest and least interesting were the people who went to B-School.

but those are my own prejudices speaking.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:41 PM   #191
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^ This.
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:28 PM   #192
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why? seriously, why? i have so many friend who are all, "the government should be run like a business," but it isn't a business, is it? it's government, something totally different. why do we think that businesspeople are somehow smarter and more capable than the rest of us at doing anything? why are businesspeople the new rock stars, the new sports stars? what on earth has Trump done other than make lots of money? is government's job to make money?

seriously. i have never understood the adulation of the entrepreneur, or even the assumption that the best and the brightest go to Wall Street. i always thought the greediest and least interesting were the people who went to B-School.

but those are my own prejudices speaking.
Well, I know where you're coming from and actually largely agree so I just want to clarify what I mean.

It isn't government's job to make money, but it is government's job to balance their books, and currently, they're not doing that. When I talk of a 'business' president, I absolutely don't mean a Wall Street huckster type but an actual, you know, proper businessperson that has created a business and run something rather than just become rich off speculation and/or the type of brutal power-play politics, that (from what I've read) is required to get to the top of most Wall Street firms. In other words, someone in the Jack Welsh or Richard Branson or even Martha Stewart mould rather than a Richard Fuld or Henry Kravis.

Now, granted, I previously mentioned Bloomberg, with approval, and he is a Wall Streeter, but unlike most on Wall Street, he has personally set up and run a succesful business, he has a track record of innovation and problem solving, he is not just a trader/speculator that got rich from a glorified gambling habit. In my opinion - and I am just using Bloomberg as an example - for all I know he could make a terrible president, if he ran and won - these types of qualities are qualities that are could be useful in running a country.

The problems facing America and the developed world are very, very significant, unfortunately. (*) And ultimately, I'm just not convinced that technocrats with limited life and career experience outside of party politics in the Obama mode are up to it. But I am not touting for Trump, far from it.

(* See here, for example: http://www.financialsense.com/financ...e-next-tsunami )
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:13 AM   #193
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(AP)NEW YORK — Real estate mogul Donald Trump suggested in an interview Monday that President Barack Obama had been a poor student who did not deserve to be admitted to the Ivy League universities he attended. Trump, who is mulling a bid for the Republican presidential nomination, offered no proof for his claim but said he would continue to press the matter as he has the legitimacy of the president's birth certificate.

"I heard he was a terrible student, terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?" Trump said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I'm thinking about it, I'm certainly looking into it. Let him show his records."

Obama graduated from Columbia University in New York in 1983 with a degree in political science after transferring from Occidental College in California. He went on to Harvard Law School, where he graduated magna cum laude 1991 and was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review.

Obama's 2008 campaign did not release his college transcripts, and in his best-selling memoir, "Dreams From My Father," Obama indicated he hadn't always been an academic star. Trump told the AP that Obama's refusal to release his college grades were part of a pattern of concealing information about himself.

"I have friends who have smart sons with great marks, great boards, great everything and they can't get into Harvard," Trump said. "We don't know a thing about this guy. There are a lot of questions that are unanswered about our president."

Katie Hogan, a spokeswoman for Obama's re-election campaign, declined to comment.

Trump, a wealthy businessman and reality TV host, has risen to the top of many polls in part by his outspoken call for Obama to release his long form birth certificate. The state of Hawaii has released a certificate of live birth indicating Obama was born there on August 4, 1961, but that has not quelled critics who believe Obama was born outside the United States and is therefore not qualified to be president.

The so-called "birther" controversy has dominated the early stage of the 2012 GOP nominating contest, with Trump leading the charge.

"I have more people that are excited about the fact that I reinvigorated this whole issue," Trump said, adding "the last guy (Obama) wants to run against is Donald Trump."
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:51 AM   #194
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:22 AM   #195
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this could also go in the obama thread, but i don't get this. so many outright lies have been said about obama, even before he actually became president. during bush's presidency if someone said bad about him it was un-american. so why is it okay for the same group who said that was un-american to then do the same thing to obama? ridiculous.
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