Do you believe in hell? - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-20-2011, 04:29 PM   #181
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
The notion of cause and effect in our world tilts me towards determinism and even introducing some truly random non-deterministic event that alters my actions still leaves my thought processes beyond my control. My feeling is that we all have an illusion of choice and are psychologically primed with concepts about moral responsibility that don't easily reconcile with determinism.
I actually agree with this as well, but I feel like the force of determinism is a consequence of our own choices and actions -- karma. Do to others as you've been done. I don't even think it's a choice a lot of the time -- I don't think we can help it. I'm reading a fascinating book about relationships that explores the time-honored and tested notions that so much of our dysfunction is inherited -- the sins of the father, so to speak, being passed down. The entropic nature of the universe prevails.

This is why I've never had a problem with humanity needing a Savior, because without some external change, we will never escape our darker side. The concepts of moral responsibility, as you so aptly put it, are from our conscience -- and the conscience, at least in my worldview, is the reminder from the Spirit of who we were/are supposed to be. And without an external force to introduce change, we would be left alone to contend with forces over which we have no control.

St. Paul puts it this way: we're either beholden to sin (our broken nature) or beholden to righteousness (our whole nature). And the whole story of humanity is that we can't ever really escape our brokenness on our own. It's why from the Greeks to the Romans to the present day, human drama rarely changes. If anything, God restores choice to us by presenting us with another option. He tells His people in Deuteronomy, I've set before you death and life. Choose life.
__________________

__________________
nathan1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 04:31 PM   #182
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
Are those the only ways people abuse their sexuality?
Okay, bestialty and incest I forgot, but other than that, the only ways I could think of, since they are doing harm to others. One could debate about doing harm to oneself, but I guess that's a whole different topic.
__________________

__________________
Vincent Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 06:18 PM   #183
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Okay, bestialty and incest I forgot, but other than that, the only ways I could think of, since they are doing harm to others. One could debate about doing harm to oneself, but I guess that's a whole different topic.
You don't think things like infidelity should be added to that list? Pornography? You're forgetting the cost of such things to spouses, families, and children.
__________________
nathan1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 07:06 PM   #184
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 07:23 PM
They didn't cross my mind. But they are not as clear-cut. For me out of the question, but some people have a different view on it. Then it depends on the effects it does have on the spouse, or the children, and how they view it.
__________________
Vincent Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 08:10 PM   #185
Blue Crack Addict
 
flybabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sunglasses,USA
Posts: 17,056
Local Time: 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
I found it funny when God created homosexuals and then told them all they should be killed for being homosexual.
That's their choice. God created them as a human being, not their morals or lifestyles. You should look up Leviticus.
__________________
flybabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 10:32 PM   #186
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 03:53 PM
uh oh! That's probably gonna open up a little bag of worms.
__________________
Basstrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 10:33 PM   #187
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 03:53 PM
or a can of them, even
__________________
Basstrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 11:15 PM   #188
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,892
Local Time: 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybabe View Post
That's their choice. God created them as a human being, not their morals or lifestyles. You should look up Leviticus.
Homosexuality is innate. It is in no way a choice. If you choose to believe God created man, you choose to believe God created homosexuality.

I know Leviticus. I've read Leviticus. I was raised Catholic.

Leviticus is the part of the Bible that makes all Christians look evil.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2011, 11:19 PM   #189
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 12:23 PM
I honestly don't care what the Bible (or any other religious text, really) says about homosexuality, pro or con. Whether it was written by God or by mere men, it's still one person's (or a group of people's) individual opinion(s). Why do I HAVE to agree with them just because a book says so?

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 12:24 AM   #190
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 01:23 PM
Someone mentioned awhile back a quote of Jesus: "Depart from me, I never knew you." The ironic thing is that that quote is aimed at those who consider themselves to be believers, not at the so-called "lost." The only time Jesus ever got really harsh with people in was in his dealings with highly religious people.

Kinda makes you wonder where He'd come down were he participating in this thread!

Also, someone was making a fuss about how God demands this constant worship and adoration. . .I'm not really getting that in my reading of the Bible, can some one help me out with a few quotes. I suppose there's the first and second commandments "Have no other god's before me" and so on but I can't think of many other commands to pay obesiance in the Bible.

As I've said before the God I hear described by those who aren't believers sounds like a really miserable deity. To be frank I don't believe in Him either.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 12:38 AM   #191
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybabe View Post
That's their choice. God created them as a human being, not their morals or lifestyles. You should look up Leviticus.
Have you ever eaten shellfish?
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 01:09 AM   #192
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Someone mentioned awhile back a quote of Jesus: "Depart from me, I never knew you." The ironic thing is that that quote is aimed at those who consider themselves to be believers, not at the so-called "lost."
Well technically, if the people he directed it toward believe they are following God, but are not, then they are "lost".
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 06:34 AM   #193
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post

Also, someone was making a fuss about how God demands this constant worship and adoration. . .I'm not really getting that in my reading of the Bible, sounds like a really miserable deity. To be frank I don't believe in Him either.
Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.


There are a goodly number of verses dealing with worship. And that is to be exe
__________________
Basstrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 06:55 AM   #194
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post

Also, someone was making a fuss about how God demands this constant worship and adoration. . .I'm not really getting that in my reading of the Bible, sounds like a really miserable deity. To be frank I don't believe in Him either.
Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
__________________
Basstrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #195
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybabe View Post
That's their choice. God created them as a human being, not their morals or lifestyles. You should look up Leviticus.
So you chose to be straight? How old were you?

Have you actually read Leviticus, or just one passage? I hope you've never touched a football or eaten pork...
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com