Disciplining Your Child

[financeguy]

what about the time teachers whapped kids hands with canes?

Not sure about up North but corporal punishment in the Republic was still legal in my first few years at primary school, though it was probably dying out and the teachers themselves were turning against it. I do remember the year before the ban on corporal punishment came in, when I was in first class (I think, the equivalent of the US first grade) there was a lady teacher who was not shy of using the ruler on the kids' hands. Being a very quiet sort of kid and usually top of the class I never got the ruler myself except one time when the class had been so unruly she decided that everyone would have to get one stroke of the ruler on the hand. I can't say I was 'psychologically damaged' by the experience and I doubt if any the other kids were either, but, really, a grown adult hitting six or seven year old kids just seems wrong.

I also remember a few years later, when I was in fifth and sixth class, at which point the ban was definitely in force, there were these two obnoxious kids who kept disrupting the class, the male teacher had no control over them whatever and eventually resorted to whacking them on the head with his hand ever time they started their nonsense, the only effect this had was that they might shut up for a few minutes at most. Now, again, the idea of a grown man hitting kids is just wrong, but, frankly, these kids were really, really obnoxious. And, actually, this recollection is if anything an argument against corporal punishment, as it simply didn't work because they kept on with their messing and disrupting the class, until their departure to secondary school to create more havoc, doubtless (fortunately, not the same one as me).

 

[AliEnvy]

My son and step daughter were never allowed to hit each other, any of their playmates or animals. This in not acceptable behavior.

Exactly, so it follows that parents perhaps should not model unacceptable behaviour. Whether it's a hit, swat, smack, spanking, slap, beating, abuse or anything else across the physical spectrum.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is about as productive as "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you".

 

[deep]

If children are not taught the consequences of unapproved behavior is violence

they will not know how to act like an adult when they are older.

 

[A stor]

My step daughter and son in law are wonderful parents. They have never hit or spanked my grand daughter. She is bright, funny and very well behaved. Instead of yelling when they wanted her attention, they would whisper to her and let her know she could not do something. They would also explain why. You would be surprised as to how smart toddlers are. They can understand, if you act in a loving, teaching and respectful way.

If someone screamed at me. I know. I wouldn't listen. If you talk to me calmly. I am very open to what you have to say.

 

[ryancoke71]

Parenting is hard work, and I respect everyones opinions.

I may not be a perfect parent, and I do make mistakes along the way. My children are wonderful, despite my flaws! It is the hardest and most important job I will ever have, but it is the most rewarding by far.

 

[A stor]

Exactly, so it follows that parents perhaps should not model unacceptable behaviour. Whether it's a hit, swat, smack, spanking, slap, beating, abuse or anything else across the physical spectrum.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is about as productive as "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you".

I completely agree......the reason this little girl hits is because she is screamed at. "I'm going to bust your ass. Or I'm tired of this shit."

I know. Horrible language in front of any child. Instead of talking to her and teaching her. That hitting is not acceptable. We respect others and etc. The grandmother who babysits is just too lazy to do this. She simply screams at the children.

I've tried to talk to her. But, I get the "mind your own business look." I've never seen the grandmother actually hit or abuse her. Believe me, if I do. I would be on the phone to the police. Just words, but it still is teaching her that anger, violence, is the way to solve a problem.

 

[AliEnvy]

I may not be a perfect parent, and I do make mistakes along the way. My children are wonderful, despite my flaws! It is the hardest and most important job I will ever have, but it is the most rewarding by far.

Frankly it's a miracle that my own foul mouth has yet to give me a karmic spank. Ironically my 6 year old's latest question is "what is the f word" without realizing she's heard it her entire life. (never directed at her of course)

 

[ryancoke71]

I have a story about the f word....on 9/11 I was watching the continuous coverage, as we all were. My daughter was 17 months at the time. When the first tower started to fall, I was dropping f bombs like crazy. Guess what my darling baby daughter started to say......repeatedly. My husband gave me a pass, but I felt horrible. It happens! She never did repeat it, not even to this day! My 7 year old on the other hand..... He always says " well Dad says it when he is watching hockey!"

 

[VintagePunk]

Parenting is hard work, and I respect everyones opinions.

I may not be a perfect parent, and I do make mistakes along the way. My children are wonderful, despite my flaws! It is the hardest and most important job I will ever have, but it is the most rewarding by far.

Exactly. Lord knows how they grow up well despite our flaws sometimes, but they do.

Frankly it's a miracle that my own foul mouth has yet to give me a karmic spank. Ironically my 6 year old's latest question is "what is the f word" without realizing she's heard it her entire life. (never directed at her of course)

Ha! You have time, yet. I took great pains to tone the language down around mine, but when she was three, she heard the f word from a neighbour kid. She ran around the yard for half a day using it out of context while I did my best to turn away while I laughed. I finally explained to her that it isn't a nice word, and not one we use in our house (liar, liar, pants on fire). She stopped saying it, and never did again till she got much older. Now, she's all grown up and has inherited my potty mouth, and sometimes our house sounds like a bunch of sailors on shore leave rather than two respectable females, lol.

 

[redhotswami]

.

One further note. I find that in the African-American community that I work in (the school I teach in is predominantly black), a much "harsher" level of spanking is considered acceptable than in other culture groups I've worked in. The terms "whipped" and "beat" seem to have more currency. It's very much about putting the fear in kids and I find that long term it really does nothing to improve the kids' behavior (except when Mom or Dad are watching). That's just my observation and I'm hesitant to say how accurate that is.

At first I was surprised at how many people here were not whooped as a child, but this post made me realize that it might be due to cultural/socio-economic differences.

Mom is black-american (sorry Sean, the term African-American bothers me ), Dad is mexican-american, both grew up in Michael Jackson's hometown. So, hitting as discipline was the only discipline they knew. We got beat as kids, in public and in private. Mostly with belts at home, but hands in public. We also got slapped, thrown into walls, pushed down stairs, etc. etc.

Yes, it was a bit over the top, especially considering I was overall, a good kid But then again, my parents really just didn't know any other way, so I can't really hate them for it. I think I turned out pretty alright.

I noticed how some of my friends outright disrespected their own parents, and when I asked, they said they were never spanked. I'm not saying this happens to everyone who isn't spanked, but it is just a pattern I noticed amongst my peers. I especially noticed this when we moved to a middle-class neighborhood when I was young. Some of those kids were real brats.

I don't want kids, so I can't say anything about what I would do myself in terms of discipline. But, sometimes I wish parents would spank their brat ass kids who act a fool in public places.

 

[A stor]

As a survivor of childhood abuse. I hated those who hurt me. It took many years for me to forgive them.

When I held my newborn son in my arms. I promised him. I would love always him, protect him and would never let any one to abuse him. I kept my promise.

My son who is an adult age, knows the extent of abuse. I suffered as a child. He thanks me in his own words. "You are an excellent mom."

 

[maycocksean]

I noticed how some of my friends outright disrespected their own parents.

I see this a lot too, though like you, I see it more with kids outside of the black community. It's not like the kids are all awful they just treat their parents in a way--lots of eyerolling, backtack, sarcasm--that I would never have dreamed of with my own mom, and it wasn't like I was scared of her or anything. I was just raised with this idea that there was a certain way you treated your parents. It seems like a lot of kids these days don't have that idea.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Irvine511]

Any thoughts on this?

i think kids are raised differently today, mostly because the world has changed.

punishment exists in order to enforcing rule, and i think the rules, today, are much more in negotiation and contextualized than they were 100 years ago. 100 years ago, if you were (likely) born on a farm, you followed the safety rules or else your arm got chopped off by farm equipment. life was generally harsher, death was much more a part of everyday life (whether from disease or injury), and thus children had to be kept in line because the consequences for errant behavior were far more severe than they are today. your job as a parent was to keep your children alive, not to nurture their intellect or value their individuality. it wasn't necessary for children to think, speak, have opinions, and be valued for their own personalities, and parents probably weren't as interested in shaping and molding dynamic creatures who would become the repository of their (possibly shattered) hopes and dreams.

today, it's a different world. creativity, individuality, negotiation, emotional intelligence, reasoning -- these are far more valued skills than they were 100 years ago, and strict adherence to a predetermined set of rules are not. values change, and so does parenting adapt. we generally want people to seek their own answers, to find their own path, to think their own thoughts, to speak up, and to speak out, and to speak for themselves. while a lot of that takes the form of sass/sarcasm/disrespect in modern teenagers, i think it's important to note that every pushback against a parent is an attempt to form an independent identity. that sass might one day become the voice of a lawyer, or a journalist, or just some really awful housewife on a reality show. you never know.

human consciousness has changed in the past 100, 500, 1000 years. and it will continue to do so.

 

[maycocksean]

Eh, maybe. But even in such an open world, I think there should still be a place for basic respect, courtesy.

We've all met people who are jerks and who excuse it by saying: "Hey, I'm just being me. Keeping it real."

Teenagers can push back against their parents while still being respectful. They can even fight with their parents. I know I did. But I'm not talking about teens, I'm talking about six year olds.

 

[Liesje]

I see this a lot too, though like you, I see it more with kids outside of the black community. It's not like the kids are all awful they just treat their parents in a way--lots of eyerolling, backtack, sarcasm--that I would never have dreamed of with my own mom, and it wasn't like I was scared of her or anything. I was just raised with this idea that there was a certain way you treated your parents. It seems like a lot of kids these days don't have that idea.

Any thoughts on this?

Of my friends who disrespected their parents (back talk, telling their mother "I hate you", picking fights, shouting, blatantly doing what they were told not to), it all cases it was basically because the parents had always allowed the kids to treat them like doormats, it became a habit. I'm with you, Sean. I never once yelled at my own mom, never slammed doors in her face, never thought to say "I hate you", and it's not because I was afraid of her or physically disciplined. I've always gotten along with my mom and love and respect my mom. We're not as close as some, but maybe that's the reason why....my friends who were disrespectful of their mothers also had these co-dependent relationships. Their moms were their best friends when they should have been moms.

 

[maycocksean]

Their moms were their best friends when they should have been moms.

Don't get me started on this. It's bad enough when teachers are this way. Parents, it's ten times worse.

It's so unfair to kids.

 

[A stor]

I agree. Children need parents. They already have friends their own age.

 

[Liesje]

Don't get me started on this. It's bad enough when teachers are this way. Parents, it's ten times worse.

It's so unfair to kids.

My mom was not this way and I think it rubbed off because growing up, all my least favorite teachers were the ones that everyone else loved, the ones that tried to be your best friend and be "cool", but never had any real passion or depth to the subject they were teaching. I didn't buy the act and never had much respect for them because they didn't earn our respect. My two favorite high school teachers were in subjects that I could not stand, but they were genuine, honest, and fair.

 

[A stor]

My favorite high school teacher taught honers english. She was a tough as nails, but she prepared me for college.

 

[maycocksean]

My mom was not this way and I think it rubbed off because growing up, all my least favorite teachers were the ones that everyone else loved, the ones that tried to be your best friend and be "cool", but never had any real passion or depth to the subject they were teaching. I didn't buy the act and never had much respect for them because they didn't earn our respect. My two favorite high school teachers were in subjects that I could not stand, but they were genuine, honest, and fair.

Interesting. Many of the teachers I see who try to be cool/the kids friend either end up

A) with the opposite happening, which is that the kids treat the teacher with scorn because their efforts are so pathetic and obvious

or

B)as you described, the kids love the teacher, but at the same time the teacher has no control over his or her classroom. The kids like but don't respect the teacher.

I get it. Everyone likes to be liked, and I've always found it rewarding when students respect and genuinely like me. But that can't be the goal. To do your job well, your primary concern can't be what the kids can give you to make you feel good about yourself.

 

[redhotswami]

I see this a lot too, though like you, I see it more with kids outside of the black community. It's not like the kids are all awful they just treat their parents in a way--lots of eyerolling, backtack, sarcasm--that I would never have dreamed of with my own mom, and it wasn't like I was scared of her or anything. I was just raised with this idea that there was a certain way you treated your parents. It seems like a lot of kids these days don't have that idea.

Any thoughts on this?

That's exactly what I saw. Even though I grew up in a rough neighborhood, we never rolled our eyes, mouthed off, and stuff. Like Lies, I've never once yelled "I hate you!" to my parents. But then when we moved, we moved to a middle-class, predominantly white neighborhood, and just about everyone I knew did that. I would show more respect to my friends' parents than they would. It was odd. I just don't think that's appropriate.

 

[Pearl]

As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand. Nowadays, I could never say that because I know it would hurt them. I guess that comes with maturity and perspective, something many teens lack.

 

[maycocksean]

As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand. Nowadays, I could never say that because I know it would hurt them. I guess that comes with maturity and perspective, something many teens lack.

I will grant that when I was in third grade and called my mom an ass just to see what would happen and I got one of the only three spankings I got once we left my dad, that lesson did stick.

Not that I was scared as a teenager of getting spanked, but more that that lesson was so deeply engrained in me--that long after corporal punishment ceased to be an issue I knew that speaking to my mom in that manner was absolutely unacceptable.

I guess that's how I think spanking should be applied. So rarely for only the most serious of issues so that whatever happens to cause the punishment never happens again, and the message sticks with you for a lifetime. I might put it this way--if, your child when he or she is an adult won't be able to recall exactly what they were spanked for then you've probably spanked too much.

 

[Irvine511]

Eh, maybe. But even in such an open world, I think there should still be a place for basic respect, courtesy.

of course, it's not an either/or proposition. it's an overall trend.

 

[Irvine511]

As a teenager I wanted to say "I hate you" to my parents but never did because I did fear the back of their hand.

but is this a good thing? respect through fear?

 

[Pearl]

but is this a good thing? respect through fear?

As I mentioned in the first post, my parents were pre-Baby Boomers. They came from a generation where it was OK to spank or even smack your kids around when they misbehaved or were disrespectful.

But was it a good thing that I grew up afraid of my parents? I think parents who instill respect through fear are insecure and are emotionally immature as parents. They are so frightened of their kids taking control of the house, or are unable to control their emotions. I'm sure every parent feels the need to hit their kids as a knee-jerk reaction whenever their kids do something really awful. But the good ones control their emotions. The others aren't able to do so, and someone gets hurt.

 

[maycocksean]

but is this a good thing? respect through fear?

I was afraid of my father. I did not--and do not-- respect him.

I was never, ever afraid of my mother.

 

[financeguy]

i think kids are raised differently today, mostly because the world has changed.

punishment exists in order to enforcing rule, and i think the rules, today, are much more in negotiation and contextualized than they were 100 years ago. 100 years ago, if you were (likely) born on a farm, you followed the safety rules or else your arm got chopped off by farm equipment. life was generally harsher, death was much more a part of everyday life (whether from disease or injury), and thus children had to be kept in line because the consequences for errant behavior were far more severe than they are today. your job as a parent was to keep your children alive, not to nurture their intellect or value their individuality. it wasn't necessary for children to think, speak, have opinions, and be valued for their own personalities, and parents probably weren't as interested in shaping and molding dynamic creatures who would become the repository of their (possibly shattered) hopes and dreams.

today, it's a different world. creativity, individuality, negotiation, emotional intelligence, reasoning -- these are far more valued skills than they were 100 years ago, and strict adherence to a predetermined set of rules are not. values change, and so does parenting adapt. we generally want people to seek their own answers, to find their own path, to think their own thoughts, to speak up, and to speak out, and to speak for themselves. while a lot of that takes the form of sass/sarcasm/disrespect in modern teenagers, i think it's important to note that every pushback against a parent is an attempt to form an independent identity. that sass might one day become the voice of a lawyer, or a journalist, or just some really awful housewife on a reality show. you never know.

human consciousness has changed in the past 100, 500, 1000 years. and it will continue to do so.

Great post. You know, I'm getting slightly tired of this 'teenagers are brats these days' thesis, some of which I've seen creeping into some of the other posters' contributions on this thread. Last time I checked, the adults, the people who actually run the world, particularly the pre baby-boom generation, the baby boom generation, and even our own generation of thirtysomethings (scarily, we're now in charge, or soon will be) haven't done a spectacularly competent job of managing the world. I don't have kids, but if one day I do, I'd like to think that I'd raise them with a challenging, questioning mentality.

 

[Jive Turkey]

My favorite high school teacher taught honers english. She was a tough as nails, but she prepared me for college.

oh the irony

 

[Pearl]

^^^