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Old 09-17-2010, 07:58 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Cute.

the entire issue at hand with this topic is the behavior of football players with a reporter in the locker room. If you can't grasp why the issue of whether our not there should be interviews done in the locker room at all is part of this particular issue then I really have nothing else to say.
Well, no. If that's the case, then you don't think there should be women in the locker room (Football players are too homophobic to be hitting on male reporters). But half of the bad behaviour being reported didn't even happen in the locker room. So we better ban reporters from the practices too. Besides, your whole reason for not wanting people in the locker room is because players can't control themselves? really? That's pretty weak. One incident and you think they should throw out locker room reporting? Seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction if you ask me. Unless of course you thought the same before the incident, but then it mustve been something else that triggered your stance. What aren't you telling me, Headache? I think we need to dig a little deeper into the recesses of your soul
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:25 AM   #122
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Well, no. If that's the case, then you don't think there should be women in the locker room (Football players are too homophobic to be hitting on male reporters). But half of the bad behaviour being reported didn't even happen in the locker room. So we better ban reporters from the practices too. Besides, your whole reason for not wanting people in the locker room is because players can't control themselves? really? That's pretty weak. One incident and you think they should throw out locker room reporting? Seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction if you ask me. Unless of course you thought the same before the incident, but then it mustve been something else that triggered your stance. What aren't you telling me, Headache? I think we need to dig a little deeper into the recesses of your soul
Got a little sand in your undies there chief?

where was it that I said I wanted reporters out of the locker room because the team can't control themselves? I'd love for you to provide that quote, considering I never said it.

I've been fairly consistent in saying that the jets have zero excuse for their actions, and that the behavior is at least partially the fault of their fat douche of a coach. If the coach acts in an inappropriate, broodish unprofessional way, one can't expect that the team would have any semblance of discipline.

My girlfriend works I this world. She's around players all the time. I would be incredibly angry if someone were to treat her this way. The jets should be ashamed of themselves, and should have been fined.

That all said, as a former college athlete and as a coach I believe the locker room should be off limits to everyone other than the team and the coaching staff. The locker room should be a private place. It isn't, and players need to behave themselves when any reporter is in there.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:26 AM   #123
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Settle down, kids.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:28 AM   #124
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Settle down, kids.
Not that the Headache needs my assistance, but he did actually provide an insightful answer to Turkey's inquiry.


I think Turkey should be careful not to call anyone or anyone's thoughts retarded though.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:49 AM   #125
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Got a little sand in your undies there chief?
nah, that's why I lightened it up a bit with ridiculous statements at the end of my post

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where was it that I said I wanted reporters out of the locker room because the team can't control themselves? I'd love for you to provide that quote, considering I never said it.
You sort of implied it here, no?

Quote:

the entire issue at hand with this topic is the behavior of football players with a reporter in the locker room.
I mean, when taken in context with my question, what else could it mean?

Regardless, thanks for finally saying why you believe what you do. Why not just write that in the first place? It was an honest question, why not just give a straight answer?



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I think Turkey should be careful not to call anyone or anyone's thoughts retarded though.
I didnt call him or his thoughts retarded. I called his lack of thoughts retarded. I don't take that back. His most recent post was a good one though
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:12 AM   #126
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I find it interesting(actually hypocritical) that there is so much discussion about her clothes.

She's in a locker room, the men are half naked, why wasn't she harassing them?
She probably is bothering them while they are trying to get dressed and get the hell out of the lockerroom.
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:14 AM   #127
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Well, no. If that's the case, then you don't think there should be women in the locker room (Football players are too homophobic to be hitting on male reporters). But half of the bad behaviour being reported didn't even happen in the locker room. So we better ban reporters from the practices too. Besides, your whole reason for not wanting people in the locker room is because players can't control themselves? really? That's pretty weak. One incident and you think they should throw out locker room reporting? Seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction if you ask me. Unless of course you thought the same before the incident, but then it mustve been something else that triggered your stance. What aren't you telling me, Headache? I think we need to dig a little deeper into the recesses of your soul
reporters shouldn't be on the practice field or the lockerroom anyway. I think if the reporters want to watch from the little stands at most fields, sure, but stay away from the sidelines, benches, etc. The coaches have players and themselves usually speak to the media after the practice in a designated conference room etc.
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:58 AM   #128
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Not at all. I think you missed the first part of my post. I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. The players should take responsibility for their actions. So should she. As others have posted on this board, by playing up the sexual part of her job (measuring biceps, riding around on players' shoulders, conducting interviews in cleavage revealing outfits), she has actually made it harder for legitimate female sports reporters to be taken seriously.

And I do think that this woman complaining about harassment actually waters down the experiences of women who have actually been legitimately harassed (by that I mean being on the receiving end of unsolicited, unmotivated sexual comments and innuendo), such as yourself.

She wants attention. They're idiots. Stupid is as stupid does.
The issue of playing up the sexual part of her job is a whole other issue. You have people like Maria Menounos interviewing players at the Super Bowl and asking them frivilous questions because the Super Bowl is covered as an entertainment event. Sports is covered as entertainment, not just as sports any more. Most female on air sports reporters are attractive, and they're there partly for that reason I would imagine. That's tv these days. The whole female reporter, attractiveness, sexual aspect of it is done by the tv networks to get ratings. They get snippet interviews, they're not there as any sort of in depth coverage. When there's a woman at the desk on any of the pre and post game NFL shows then they care about legit female reporters in their tv coverage, which is where the money is. Why are there cheerleaders, why are there certain commercials-it's a sexual aspect done to appeal to male viewers, I would guess.

She didn't complain about the harassment-another female reporter did under the umbrella issue. That's the way it's been reported. I don't think she went into the locker room to interview Mark Sanchez in order to solicit sexual comments and innuendo about her appearance. No matter how silly her interviews are, I don't think she would still be around if she went in there for that purpose. The NFL allows her silly interviews and if they had a problem with them I assume they would have spoken to her employer long before now. And no woman would want to "solicit" harassment in the workplace or elsewhere. It isn't fun. I've been harassed even on a job interview. Attention can be wanted, attention is not always harassment as defined by law..even though when attention is unwanted it can feel like harassment. Harassment is unwanted and is defined by law in the workplace. In Mad Men times there were no laws.

Nor did she stand on the sidelines in order to get them to throw footballs in her direction. As much as that might have contributed to a frivolous report she wasn't soliciting that, I would imagine. They did that of their own free will, and apparently it's a common practice if they think a woman is hot and they want to get her attention. Even when they're both there to work. If she had worn a turtleneck and baggy sweatpants they wouldn't have done any of that I guess. Cause they can control themselves only if women cover up. Sounds like something we decry in certain Middle East countries.

Any victim of legitimate harassment, as you call it, can be questioned as to how they dress and the accused person can try to bring that up as some sort of defense. Even in an office environment. If you're wearing a skirt and your legs are showing in any way..well. You don't see how that's a problem?
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:08 AM   #129
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Regardless, thanks for finally saying why you believe what you do. Why not just write that in the first place? It was an honest question, why not just give a straight answer?
Actually, in his first post on the thread on Wednesday, he explained it quite well:
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
.

first off, i don't think any reporters should be allowed in the locker room. period. nfl, nba, wnba, mlb, nhl, male, female, gay, straight and everything in between. it should be a private sanctum for the team and nothing more. i do not care about the "competitiveness" of the business. reporters can wait. would you feel comfortable having the person who reviewed your job performance do it while you were in the bathroom? while you were getting changed? some things should be off limits, the locker room is one of them. there are more than enough facilities in professional stadiums and arenas for interviews to take place. at the very least, no reporter should be allowed in until everyone is dressed.

.
why you needed to goad him for days thereafter and use terms like "retarded" is a bit curious.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:49 AM   #130
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AP NEW YORK — The NFL chastised the New York Jets on Friday for unprofessional conduct but found no evidence that a female television reporter was "bumped, touched, brushed against or otherwise subjected to any physical contact" by any member of the team or coaching staff.

Commissioner Roger Goodell said while the "conduct of the Jets clearly should have been better" team owner Woody Johnson and his staff acted promptly to correct the situation that arose last weekend when TV Azteca reporter Ines Sainz said she felt uncomfortable in the team's locker room.

Goodell said that, as a result of the incident, the league will implement a training program for all 32 teams on proper conduct in the workplace and that the program would be underwritten by Johnson, who personally apologized to Sainz.

The NFL came to its conclusion after interviewing 17 people who were present – including Sainz – when she visited practice on assignment for her Mexican TV network.

In a letter to Johnson, Goodell said that while "there seems little doubt that passes were thrown in Sainz's direction at last Saturday's practice, it is also clear that she was never bumped, touched, brushed against, or otherwise subjected to any physical contact by any player or coach.

"Sainz herself was unequivocal in saying both that no physical contact occurred, and that no player or other Jets staff member made any comment or gesture that could be construed as threatening, demeaning or offensive," he said.

Sainz said on her Twitter account last Saturday that she felt "very uncomfortable!" in the Jets' locker room, where a few players made catcalls as she waited with two male co-workers to interview quarterback Mark Sanchez, who is of Mexican descent.

"Of course you feel it when you are being stared at and when you are being spoken of in a certain way," Sainz told The Associated Press. "I opted to ignore it ... I tried to not even pay attention."

She tweeted in Spanish on Saturday night that she tried "not to look anywhere!!"

Goodell said Sainz explained that her postings on Twitter while in the locker room reflected her "general lack of comfort in that setting, and were not related to any specific act, comment or gesture directed to her by any member of the Jets organization."

He said she also told the NFL she had not seen or heard any catcalls, sexually explicit or offensive comments or gestures directed at her, "and did not believe she was subjected to any improper conduct."

Goodell's letter said Sainz "did not believe that the activity in the locker room interfered with her ability to do her job (namely, obtaining an interview with Sanchez), and did not identify any member of the Jets organization who did anything that was in her view improper. That being noted, Sainz did state that the locker room environment 'could have been better.'"

The letter said other reporters in the locker room described the atmosphere as "juvenile, immature, high school," but "not over the top."

"Others agreed that the atmosphere was not hostile, that no obscene or lewd comments or gestures were made and that nobody had physical contact with Sainz, that Sainz did not appear concerned, disturbed or troubled by what was going on around her, and that nobody had difficulty doing his or her job."

However, the letter also said the atmosphere in the locker room was described as "unprofessional, uncomfortable, and disappointing."

The new training program will also be given to NFL rookies next year to help them deal professionally with news media and others in the workplace. The training program and related set guidelines for reporters, will be developed by the NFL in consultation with the Association for Women in Sports Media.

"Any debate over whether women reporters belong in the locker room was settled long ago, and this incident offers no occasion to reopen that antiquated discussion," Goodell said.

Johnson said the team had "learned from what happened last Saturday, and have reaffirmed our commitment to treat all members of the media with professionalism and respect."
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:19 AM   #131
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Actually, in his first post on the thread on Wednesday, he explained it quite well:


why you needed to goad him for days thereafter and use terms like "retarded" is a bit curious.
That quote from him is meaningless unless he is actually involved in the sport (which he is, and I gave him credit for that. He didnt state that until after our little conversation.). Otherwise, how does that answer my question in any fashion???

Goad him for days? Ha! Please. First of all, my original post wasnt directed at him in particular. He chose to respond to it in the most unproductive way possible. I asked an honest question and got more than one condescending post from him.
As for my vocabulary, I dont need you telling me what words I can and cannot use, thanks.
Curious that you would stir the pot again after it was clearly settled
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:14 PM   #132
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That being said, using words like "retarded" in reference to other poster's comments doesn't exactly further the discussion or improve the tone of it.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:35 PM   #133
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That being said, using words like "retarded" in reference to other poster's comments doesn't exactly further the discussion or improve the tone of it.
Fair enough, Diemen. I'm not a shit disturber, I was just responding to what I felt were rude replies. Your point is duly noted. Though technically, I was using the word in it's intended, nonderogatory sense
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:18 PM   #134
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In Mad Men times there were no laws.
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:30 PM   #135
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So if women don't dress like a "floozie" they won't get harassed? I have had things yelled out at me from car windows when I'm wearing my usual jeans and a football shirt that covers almost all the way down to my knees. No cleavage bared-there isn't any to bare. Try putting up with that when all you're trying to do is walk for exercise. Maybe I should walk in a burqa. Because these guys just can't control themselves, and I'm walking on a public street so what should I expect?

I don't care what she wears or how many biceps she measures, etc-what they did is still a form of harassment. They're grown men capable of treating all women in the right way. They can control themselves when the situation warrants-what they say in private, well that's up to them to deal with.

Certainly, Like I said before, if men don't think men can control themselves when the situation warrants then they don't have a very high opinion of their own gender.
Heterosexual males are attracted to the female form.

But, in any case, according to the most recent update, the accusations are false, so this girl seemingly has gone ahead and made a trumped-up allegation of 'harassment' which in the modern day PC environment is pretty much the worst thing.

America strikes me as a strange place at times. Both hyper-sexualised, and also on some level deeply afraid of sex. The source of the biggest adult industry in the world and yet also the most puritanical PC society in the world (excepting Iran, and similar places).

Rape is rape, sexual assault is sexual assault - both are quite correctly treated as very serious offenses in pretty much any civilised country in the world. But if a very attractive female reporter goes trying to score with, or at the very least, check out the physiques of, some football players in a locker room, then gets the brush-off, or sees a few guy in shorts or with their appendages on display (what did she expect? it's a locker room, after all. Guys get naked there) and says she's being "harassed" then I'm afraid I'm not going to lose any sleep over the matter. She has her eyes on the dollar, the publicity, and scoring with a football player, pure and simple.
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