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Old 01-25-2012, 09:44 PM   #31
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Well, I guess this is what happens when we want gay celebrities to be spokespeople for the entire World of Gay: people go and pick apart and question everything they've ever said about it.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:46 PM   #32
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I feel like I should also add that this afternoon I hit the "anger" stage of grief over my stolen car, and the internet is taking the brunt of it.

Sorry if I'm coming across as combative.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:46 PM   #33
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W.W.L.B.D.

clf
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:48 PM   #34
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What does Lionel Barrymore have to do with anything?
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:48 PM   #35
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I nearly had mine stolen last year, but randomly looked out my back window to the parking lot while they were still in the car. I yelled down, then grabbed a hammer and went outside, but they were already gone (as if I was going to beat someone with a hammer anyway). The cops were able to dust for prints and they ended up catching him because he had done it before (not sure about the others). But I was SO mad and fantasized about booby trapping my car for the next time.

I feel your pain and you have my sympathies
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:56 PM   #36
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Looks like someone took really shitty notes at the Gay Agenda Meeting.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:08 PM   #37
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I should also just add that I'm only actively responding to this because it's in FYM and I'm bored. Had I seen it on TV or read it in the newspaper, I'd probably just think "what a dumb dumb" and move on
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #38
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^Happens at the Black Agenda Meeting too. (See Juan Williams)

Sorry about your car, Cori
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:01 AM   #39
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i'll deal with this in the morning.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:06 AM   #40
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dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnn
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:48 AM   #41
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I wouldn't argue in person with someone who defined their sexuality as a choice. I understand, I think, what she meant by feeling angered when others effectively dictate to her how she should understand her own sexuality. Even so, in my own mind she sounds like a bisexual who's "choosing" a specific social identity rather than an orientation--it's not just that she happens to have a female lover now and otherwise life is exactly the same, she also has come to feel strong social and political identification with the LGBT and especially the lesbian community. But I wouldn't actually argue that case with her. I know I wouldn't appreciate being told "You're deluding yourself, you just choose to be straight" even though -- much like her acknowledging "I understand that for many people it’s not [a choice]" -- I'm in principle open to the possibility that *everyone's* sexual orientation is likely a mix of biological and environmental factors, and thus perhaps none of us could say with certainty "I'd have turned out this way no matter what," however involuntary our present orientations are.

I can see why some LGBT people were angered though. She's coming from the perspective of someone who (apparently) unproblematically identified as straight for most of her life. Someone who spent their teenage and young adult years in pain, confusion and shame because they didn't feel "normal" sexual desires, and were harassed or rejected by family and "friends" who condemned them for "choosing" to do "disgusting" or "sinful" things, is probably not going to view their hardwon arrival at "No, this is just how I am and I accept it" as merely a servile apology to bigots. I don't think she meant it that way at all, I think she was only thinking about opening up a space for people who feel as she does to speak honestly, but I can understand why saying "we’re just ceding this point to bigots" might be heard by some as finger-shaking at the entire LGBT community. Granted, if there weren't still a stigma attached to being gay in our society this probably wouldn't even be an issue, but then again there quite possibly wouldn't be an "LGBT community" to speak of either.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
My point is that she's saying she doesn't want to define herself as bisexual, for whatever reason, and I think that needs to be respected.
If she doesn't want to be recognized for something that she is (and that she assumed that she is), for something that is a structural characteristic of her identity, then she has problems of internalized homophobia to fix.

Like someone said in another comment: Can I choose not be a white caucasian man too? And can I deny to define myself as that too?
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:57 PM   #43
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In a Queer Theory course I took in college (granted, it was introductory, so we didn't get into higher levels of thought on the subject), one of the notions presented that I agreed with was the notion that sexuality exists on a spectrum. As a result you have strongly hetero people, weakly hetero people, bi people with a tendency towards hetero, bi people with a tendency towards homo, etc. As a result, I'm not threatened by the notion that sexuality is an ever-evolving thing. There are gay people I've known who have shifted towards heterosexuality, and straight people I've known who have, over time, shifted towards homosexuality. This doesn't seem controversial to me, based on a perspective on sexuality that seems to make sense.

I understand however that this can be fuel for the fire of those who think that sexuality is only a choice -- completely ignoring the environmental, chemical, biological (?) factors that can also influence one's sexuality (to say nothing of issues like trauma, abuse, etc that can also affect one's sexuality).
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:00 PM   #44
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Queer Theory
That should be the name of a gay nu metal band.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:06 PM   #45
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That should be the name of a gay nu metal band.
Like.
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