Culture of Violence:Gun Crime Up 89% in a Decade - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-02-2009, 12:19 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post

We need to find the answer.


we can start by taking a stance on guns similar to that of the UK and Australia.

as Angela has pointed out, non-violent crime in the US is about on par with the rest of the Western world. it's murder -- specifically, handgun murder -- that's so much astronomically higher here than anywhere else.

where can we find the difference? is there something intrinsically murderous in the heart of every US American?

or is it just that we have way too many guns that are too easy to get and make it too easy to kill and if other societies had the availability of handguns they'd have similar rates of handgun murder, and vice versa.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:20 PM   #47
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What is breeding this violence?


the availability of handguns. lots and lots and lots of handguns.

makes it super-easy to kill.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the availability of handguns. lots and lots and lots of handguns.

makes it super-easy to kill.



First, it is a lot harder to get a firearm in the United States than it was twenty or more years ago. There are restrictions and background checks. The "availability of firearms" point does not work.

Did you notice that the thread was about gun crime being up in the UK by 89% since the gun ban?

And you said this?
"is there something intrinsically murderous in the heart of every US American?"

So, it's the murderous Americans?

Please explain why you think that is true and how that relates to the increase in gun crime in the UK.

And much thanks to several previous posters who are posting on this topic and are awake enough to see that this violence we are seeing in society is not being driven by firearms, but by evil.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
First, it is a lot harder to get a firearm in the United States than it was twenty or more years ago. There are restrictions and background checks. The "availability of firearms" point does not work.

crime has gone down over the past 20 years. significantly. the peak year for homicides was 1991.


Quote:
Did you notice that the thread was about gun crime being up in the UK by 89% since the gun ban?
did you notice that you've been effectively answered on this point?



Quote:
So, it's the murderous Americans?
if it's not the guns in the United States that are causing the murders, then it must be, by your own words below, the evil Americans.


Quote:
And much thanks to several previous posters who are posting on this topic and are awake enough to see that this violence we are seeing in society is not being driven by firearms, but by evil.

so thanks to the posters who agree with your erroneous conclusion?
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:38 PM   #50
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The welfare state

Multiculturalism

No-fault divorce

Consumerism

Atomisation

Thatcher

The Conservatives

New Labour

Old Labour


Take your pick



Thank you for posting the list.
As a U.S. citizen I'm having a difficult time responding to all of the replies.
I have so many firearms falling out of my pockets and about the house that I just cant get my murderous hands to hit the keys fast enough.


My pick on your list would be divorce. The breaking apart of the traditional family, I think, is one of the reasons we have seen an increase in violent crime.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:39 PM   #51
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uh huh.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:50 PM   #52
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My pick on your list would be divorce. The breaking apart of the traditional family, I think, is one of the reasons we have seen an increase in violent crime.
And what makes you think so? Please explain.

Because I disagree. High divorce rates have little to do with criminal activity. Lousy parents - whether its a nuclear family or a single parent family - can create violent children, but even that's not always the case.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:22 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by the iron horse
Thank you for posting the list.
I am not necessarily saying I agree with the list. It was intended to be a list of factors that the media have blamed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse
My pick on your list would be divorce. The breaking apart of the traditional family, I think, is one of the reasons we have seen an increase in violent crime.

I agree with you here.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:07 PM   #54
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I agree with you here.

divorce seems a band-aid on the actual problem, and it's easy to pick at.

i think what's probably more unsettling -- to some -- is the economic empowerment of women, and their ability to walk away from abusive, loveless, unhappy marriages in ways that their mothers and grandmothers could only dream of.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:08 PM   #55
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I have so many firearms falling out of my pockets and about the house that I just cant get my murderous hands to hit the keys fast enough.

no, no -- evil hands. you said so yourself.

Americans are more evil, that's why we have more gun crime.

it's not more guns, it's that we're more evil.

evil.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:30 PM   #56
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Seriously? Being allowed to own a gun makes it safer? Why, because if we stigmatize it then people feel bad and have to subvert the law? Yes, just like how we should legalize illicit drugs because that would save the government money on fighting trade.

Many of the people who really support gun rights, scare me, I don't want them with guns. Its funny, they're the ones who claim its safe because people make their own choices, I'd be a lot more confident in the choices someone who supports control would make over how to use a gun that was in their possession.

Truth is for a 'civilized' country violence in the United States is far too high, our culture is a selfish one that's conscience is out of whack or fading away, so less restriction on weapons is quite literally putting a loaded gun into dangerous hands. We can get into an argument over constitutional rights, but the constitution doesn't dictate that the government can make no law to keep its citizens safe. Cite statistics on one side or the other until kingdom come, if you value your right to own a gun against even a single life lost or damaged by accident or assault, I'm afraid for humanity.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:57 PM   #57
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My pick on your list would be divorce. The breaking apart of the traditional family, I think, is one of the reasons we have seen an increase in violent crime.
Once again this is just simple and naive.

First of all not all divorce has children involved, secondly some that do actually function a lot better post divorce, and third this doesn't even begin to address all the other variations of family and non-families out there.

What about those families that are still married but neither parent is really involved?
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:02 AM   #58
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i love how a thread about any country, becomes some big america bashing thread.

I hope you don't think my reply was an excuse to bash America. It was definitely not intended as such.
The causes in the US are growing, slowly but surely, in other parts of the world. The causes need to be identified and rectified. I think it's got little do to with availability of guns themselves (though I support gun control totally) and even less to do with Americans being somehow different to people in other countries. To be honest, I don't think as people you are any different. The young people in the UK who are upping the rates there are more than likely facing the same issues that youth in the US face.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:42 AM   #59
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^ Surely the illicit drug trade, and the incentive to violence its profits offer (Prohibition was repealed for a reason!), must be central among those causes. The correlation between the arrival of crack cocaine and the huge surge in violent crime across the US during the 1980s has been exhaustively documented, and we're still the largest consumer market for crack cocaine today, even though our consumption--along with our homicide rate--has dropped considerably since the 1990s (only Spain has a higher proportional prevalence of cocaine use than we do, and they have very strict gun control laws).

That said, our comparing unfavorably to Europe where violent crime rates are concerned apparently isn't anything new:

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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In 1916, 198 homicides were recorded in Chicago, a city of slightly over 2 million at the time. This level of crime was not exceptional when compared to other American cities such as New York City, but was much higher relative to European cities, such as London, which then had three times the population but recorded only 45 homicides in the same year.
( ^ ETA: Granted, that's during WWI, so I'm only assuming that year was broadly representative of comparative crime trends.)
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:24 AM   #60
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^ Surely the illicit drug trade, and the incentive to violence its profits offer (Prohibition was repealed for a reason!), must be central among those causes.
I was going to say that, if I had to make a guess, the drug trade is the leading cause of handgun murder in the US, especially in the housing projects and other rough areas of cities like L.A., Baltimore, D.C., Chicago, etc.

I obviously don't have the statistics but, yeah, I'd wager that the distribution of cocaine and heroin on the streets of these big cities leads to the majority of gun murders.

It's all in the game, as they say.
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