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Old 08-07-2007, 05:22 PM   #106
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anger issues.


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Old 08-07-2007, 05:30 PM   #107
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Dissatisfaction isn't anger...anger is what you get when you don't take the needed risks to break out of that dissatisfaction, and I saw a hell of a lot of that where I grew up too...there was way more alcoholism and domestic violence and teen pregancy than anywhere I've lived since, way way more. Not everyone was dissatisfied, hardship doesn't necessarily mean dissatisfaction, but best for those who are to take the risks and make the changes rather than spreading their misery around.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:10 PM   #108
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Something seems very familiar to me..

Nevermind
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:13 PM   #109
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Originally posted by diamond



Why's that?
I think the kids in that family are spot on regarding the founders of our country:

Consider the testimonies of their belief in God, which evidence a conviction and deliberate acknowledgment that God's hand was in the events that brought about our independence.

George Washington: "The success, which has hitherto attended our united efforts, we owe to the gracious interposition of Heaven, and to that interposition let us gratefully ascribe the praise of victory, and the blessings of peace." (To the Executive of New Hampshire, November 3, 1789, Writings 30:453.)

Alexander Hamilton: "The Sacred Rights of mankind are not to be rummaged from among old parchments or musty records. They are written . . . by the Hand of Divinity itself." (An Essay, "The Farmer Refuted," 1775.) "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system, which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests."

Thomas Jefferson: "The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time." (Rights of British America, 1774.)

John Adams: "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation." (In God We Trust, p. 75.)

Benjamin Franklin: "The longer I live the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth. That God Governs in the Affairs of Men!--And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?--We have been assured, . . . in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord build the House, they labour in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this;--and I also believe that without his concurring Aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than Builders of Babel." (Prayer during Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787.)

James Madison: "It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution." (Federalist Papers, no. 37.)

Samuel Adams: "Revelation assures us that 'Righteousness exalteth a Nation'--Communities are dealt with in this World by the wise and just Ruler of the Universe. He rewards or punishes them according to their general Character." (Letter to John Scollary, 1776.)

Charles Pinckney: "When the great work was done and published, I was . . . struck with amazement. Nothing less than that superintending hand of Providence, that so miraculously carried us through the war, . . . could have brought it about so complete, upon the whole." (P. L. Ford, ed., Essays on the Constitution,, 1892, p. 412.)

It was not just incidental, nor was it mere political platitude, that the name of God was mentioned in the Declaration of Independence four times and that our inspired national motto became "In God We Trust."

We are not to conclude from the foregoing expressions that they were Godless liberals of today.

dbs
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Deistic polymaths of the enlightenment are not figureheads of religious conservatism.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:38 PM   #110
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Originally posted by Butterscotch
I tell you the truth, I was raised in the city with only 2 siblings and was expected to have a career. I hated the idea and always wished I had been raised in the country with a bunch of brothers and sisters and honestly that is how I would like to raise my kids if I get any.(but not 17!)
Unless your parents are ogres who threatened to disown you if you became a stay-at-home mom rather than getting some big corporate job, they were probably just looking out for your best interests. It never hurts to have an education and some job skills so you are able to support yourself if being a stay-at-home mom doesn't work out for whatever reason. That's just good common sense.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:32 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Instead of having to submit and be pregnant for 25% of your life?

Why this statement? - she chose to be pregnant that much. This was a woman who used the pill prior to discovering what she perceives to be her calling.

Can we list who is arguing which issue:

a)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear.

b)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear only because she is enlisting the help of the older kids to raise them.

c)Those who think the way these 17 kids are being raised is wrong. period.

d)Those who think the way these 17 kids are being raised is wrong because it is too insular.

e)17 kids are fine, but it would be better if they were more outside community oriented.

f)17 kids is a bit much, but the values this family espouse are still valid.

g) 17 kids are fine and the way they are being raised is okay too.

h) 17 kids are fine and the way they are being raised is okay too - but not for me and my partner (or future partner if you don't have one yet)
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:45 AM   #112
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I choose #g.


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Old 08-08-2007, 01:51 AM   #113
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I kinda thought you might


eta: actually I though you'd be an h)
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:56 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowbunny00774



Why this statement? - she chose to be pregnant that much. This was a woman who used the pill prior to discovering what she perceives to be her calling.

Can we list who is arguing which issue:

a)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear.

b)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear only because she is enlisting the help of the older kids to raise them.

c)Those who think the way these 17 kids are being raised is wrong. period.

d)Those who think the way these 17 kids are being raised is wrong because it is too insular.

e)17 kids are fine, but it would be better if they were more outside community oriented.

f)17 kids is a bit much, but the values this family espouse are still valid.

g) 17 kids are fine and the way they are being raised is okay too.

h) 17 kids are fine and the way they are being raised is okay too - but not for me and my partner (or future partner if you don't have one yet)
What about:

i) eh, they can do what they want, but they should be aware the way they are raising their kids is no guarantee they will turn out any better than any other kids; and whew! I'm so fucking happy my parents only had three of us!

That's the one I'd pick.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:10 AM   #115
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Somewhere between e) and h)--I really don't feel I know enough about them to say e) for sure, but it certainly sounds that way. Regardless, I find the parents' deliberate marketing of their family as a spectacle grotesque, but hey that's "reality" TV for you.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:54 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Jefferson

Deistic polymaths of the enlightenment are not figureheads of religious conservatism.
For once A Wanderer i would just love to read one of your posts without consulting my Oxford!
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:31 AM   #117
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Originally posted by Irvine511




and what i think makes JFG great, and what makes Memphis (who comes from exactly this kind of rural background) great, isn't so much this environment, but the desire and perserverence to get the hell out of said environment because they were dissatisfied.

that is character.
So true!

I grew up in a small town west of Milwaukee. Growing up there was like dying of a thousand paper cuts. I felt cut off and isolated. I suffered from clinical depression because I thought I would never escape and my life would have no meaning. I was constantly bullied because I couldn't fit in. I grew up among people who spit up chewing tobacco into the drinking fountains. Teenage pregnancy was commonplace. One of my HS classmates did a pep rally skit in blackface! I graduated in 1985, not 1955.

Growing up there was extremely difficult if you were a minority, gay or just walked down a different path. To this day, I can recall having spit balls thrown in my hair or being called horrible names.

Fortunately, I got out when I was 18. I moved to Chicago and lived there for several years. Sure, I definitely struggled. My resume is filled with craptastic McJobs and huge failures. But I survived, and now I'm educated and I have a decent job. Is my life perfect? No. But at least I had the fucking guts to get out of a horrific situation. And it's only been in the last year or so that I given myself a big pat on the back for being such a risk taker.

On-topic: Michelle Duggar's hair is a crime!
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:38 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowbunny00774
Why this statement? - she chose to be pregnant that much. This was a woman who used the pill prior to discovering what she perceives to be her calling.
I understand that this is what she says. And I may be completely wrong for suspecting something's wrong, but sometimes these women have other stories to tell when they're allowed to tell them without their husbands standing next to them.

And some of the defenses here in this thread haven't made much sense.



Quote:
Originally posted by snowbunny00774

a)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear.

b)Those who think 17 kids are too many for a woman to bear only because she is enlisting the help of the older kids to raise them.

c)Those who think the way these 17 kids are being raised is wrong. period.

These would me my thoughts.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:53 PM   #119
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All I know is I loved the changes in my wife while she was pregnant.

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Old 08-08-2007, 03:34 PM   #120
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I understand that this is what she says. And I may be completely wrong for suspecting something's wrong, but sometimes these women have other stories to tell when they're allowed to tell them without their husbands standing next to them.
So you're assuming all women who don't believe exactly as you do are being controlled by their husbands? That they must all think like you but they can't say it? Oh come on!
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