Could the U.S. Split Up?

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Pearl

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I was watching the news today, and saw a report on how Vermont is try to secede from the Union and form its own nation. That led me to do some research on secessionist states, and turns out there's quite a few of them. I also found this article from Merinews.com:


The decline and fall of the USA

Roberto Carlos Alvarez-galloso

12 January 2008, Saturday

AT THE present rate, the USA will not exist as a country within one hundred years and maybe less. The Republicans and Democrats have contributed to the decline with their policies, the war in Iraq, and Afghanistan. The people of America contributed by blaming others for their problems and asking for unity while they divide themselves amongst race, ethnicity, religion, and ideology.

The governing elite is now forcing a type of Americanism, which has divided instead of uniting the country. People have to prove they are ‘more American’ and can be accused of being ‘anti American’. In the process, some people are gradually turning off and leaving the country because they no longer recognise America.

There are secessionist movements in Vermont, South Carolina, Ohio, Alaska, Hawaii, Michigan, and Texas. Examples of these movements are the Second Vermont Republic, the Ohio Republic, the kingdom of Hawaii, and the Free Texas movement. After visiting their websites, one could think that they are taking the same action as embodied in the Declaration of Independence.

The Lakota Nation has declared its independence as Lakota Oyate and is trying to recover the land that comprises parts of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Wyoming. The Lakota Nation is already negotiating for recognition by countries such as Venezuela, Bolivia, and Russia.

A group of Libertarians called the Free State Project have moved to New Hampshire with the intention of creating a community of Libertarians (although within the United States).

Illegal Immigration has not helped with people coming in as if they have a right to come without permission. Illegal immigrants or the federal authorities are not respecting the laws. The people do not have a clue as to what the law is and many do not even read much less the Constitution. Other countries read more and have a grasp on their history than America.

The system itself of the Electoral College, the Caucus, and the Primaries are also killing off the USA by denying other political parties an opportunity to compete on an even playing field. At present, the laws governing elections are in favour of the Republicans and Democrats.

There is the constant whining about a ‘mormon’ President, a ‘female’ President, and/or ‘an African American’ President. Who cares about the origins, the importance is that the President does well.

Although the entertainment has improved with programmes such as ‘Dancing with the Stars’, the US public (or at least the majority) cannot get enough of the people of Hollywood and their decadent behaviour. Our soldiers are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan while we consume ourselves with Nicole Richie, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Jamie Lynn Spears, and Lindsey Lohan. We love Desperate Housewives and have a desire to imitate what is seen in that programme.

International organisations such as the UN, the OAS (Organisation of American States), NATO (National Atlantic Treaty Organisation), IMF (International Monetary Fund), and WB (World Bank and Warner Brothers) have destroyed the fabric of the Constitution of the USA.

If the USA wants to save itself, it must get rid of the immoral programmes, turn off Hollywood, Return to God, A Superior Deity, Family, and accept people for what they are. The laws must be respected as well. But I do not see this happening.

http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=129106


I don't agree with the everything of this article, BTW. But everything today - the news report and this article - makes me wonder: could the US one day split up? Is it even remotely possible?
 
As someone who lives in the former capitol of the Confederacy, the likelihood of that happening again is VERRRRRY slim. It's just some crazy Yankees having too much maple syrup :wink:
 
Wow, I never really thought about this, but after reading the links & info here & knowing anything is possible, really--this is some scary stuff for the future of the US. :ohmy:
 
handful of websites ≠ viable separatist movement

No country lasts forever, but there's no logical reason to expect that to happen here anytime soon.
 
There's actually more talk of a "North American Union" similar to the EU, with the free flow of labor, capital, and goods and possibly one currency.
 
ntalwar said:
There's actually more talk of a "North American Union" similar to the EU, with the free flow of labor, capital, and goods and possibly one currency.

I don't know how I feel about this yet, but I certainly wouldn't mind the opportunity to find employment south of the 49th parallel.
 
BonoManiac said:


I don't know how I feel about this yet, but I certainly wouldn't mind the opportunity to find employment south of the 49th parallel.

It is already fairly easy to do in certain sectors.
 
How interesting. I'm writing an essay/future FYM thread on a subject vaguely related to this, and I didn't even know this thread existed until now!

Stay tuned.
 
U2democrat said:
As someone who lives in the former capitol of the Confederacy, the likelihood of that happening again is VERRRRRY slim. It's just some crazy Yankees having too much maple syrup :wink:


pssstttttttt............................:shifty: :shifty:


i can get ya a goooood deal on the syrup, U2d!





:wink:


i suppose it could happen.............
but i kinda hope it don't.
we are a great experiemnt in democrarcy......(which dosen't always go so good at times :( )


there ARE folks in the USA who DO wish NYC WAS it's own country
 
When you have folks like Bush being elected and folks like Huckabee considered as legitimate canidates for presidency it doesn't come as a suprise.

No nation last forever. It's very true. And it's true I see more "conspiracies" about a North American Union than anything these days, which I don't really get the overwhelming fear, but who knows.

The country is changing. Some for the good some for the best. Splitting, changing, merging isn't exactly a bad thing.
 
martha said:


We don't all have to take Canadian weather, do we? :yikes:

No, but you do have to keep Celine Dion. We don't want her back.
 
Im not racist or anything but when i read this it reminded me of something i learnt in a History lesson about someone wanting to give black people texas like racial segregation or something.

Who's idea was it or am i going crazy:huh:
 
I'd be surprised if it happened in our lifetime. But could it happen? It could. But how likely?
 
When I was little, like 7 or 8 years old, I used to think the US would split up. I would make up the new countries on my maps. For some reason, I have a feeling that at least one state would try to break away sometime in my life.
 
I've also heard that New Jersey is finally fed up with all the toxic waste jokes and has been thinking about seceding as well. Then they're going to elect Springsteen as their first president.
 
Pearl said:
When I was little, like 7 or 8 years old, I used to think the US would split up. I would make up the new countries on my maps. For some reason, I have a feeling that at least one state would try to break away sometime in my life.


was 1996 in your lifetime?
The Montana Freemen were a Christian Patriot group based in Montana, United States, near the town of Jordan. The Montana Freemen believed in the doctrine of individual sovereignty as expounded by the Sovereign Citizen Movement, and rejected the authority of the U.S. Federal Government. As a result of these beliefs, they attempted to set up their own parallel systems of government ("Justus Township"), common-law court, banking, and credit. They became publicly known during their 81-day-long standoff with U.S. Federal Marshals from March 25 through June 13, 1996.

Leroy Schweitzer and the Freemen used Anderson on the Uniform Commercial Code, a Bankers Handbook and various other materials related to the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) to file notices of liens against public officials. The purported liens were then allegedly sold to generate equity to fund efforts of the Freeman to make a "firm offer to pay off the national debt". The Freemen believed that the liens conformed to the UCC, and that their "Justus Township" court had an interest in a tort claim for damages, or for damages incurred by the named public officials for violations of their oaths of office. The Freeman viewed the public officials's support and support of the credit system as a non-constitutional act that was "...depriving the people of their property until our posterity wakes up homeless...".

Their efforts, from the Freeman perspective, raised the awareness of what the Freemen viewed as the never ending perpetual national debt fiat credit system, and of the relationship of that system to inflation and price manipulations that the Freemen believed were financially undermining and bankrupting the private individual class of farmers and ranchers. Laws were subsequently changed in Montana,[citation needed] and eventually elsewhere,[citation needed] to require that any liens filed had to have a current county judge or clerk signature to be held valid as "commercial paper" which can be sold or traded.
 
^^^I remember hearing about this.

But when I say I expect some states to try to break away in my lifetime, I don't expect some radical groups to try that (ETA: though I'm sure there would be plenty of them). I expect something legitimate like in Vermont, only having larger support.
 
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Why not? It's too far away from the mainland. My parents went there recently and they say there's a sense in Hawaii that it is not part of the US, as in its is own country.

How about Alaska as well? That is also too far away from the mainland to be considered, I believe, part of America.

What could happen is those two states ask to be autocratic, something like Canada and Australia are to the UK. They'll still be under American sovereignty, but be independent countries.
 
Pearl said:
What could happen is those two states ask to be autocratic, something like Canada and Australia are to the UK. They'll still be under American sovereignty, but be independent countries.

That's not the case at all. Canada and Australia - and the other Commonwealth countries - are all entirely sovereign and the UK does not exercise any sovereignty over them. Elizabeth II is separately Queen of the UK and, say, Queen of Australia.
 
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