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Old 05-21-2010, 05:01 AM   #76
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and then they put a movie out called Cougar Town............


what


the
















FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!











any movies out there called Sugar Daddy?
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:59 AM   #77
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I was hoping a discussion on the merits of healthy sexuality, monogamy and true love (without religious or political bickering) in the face of the arguably broken institution of marriage (at a societal level) would unfold in the lesbian-bisexual-sex addiction thread but I guess we needed Sean.

So the cougar thread it is lol.

At a 35,000ft view, taking shame out of women's sexuality and allowing them more freedom to explore (not to be confused with "having sex like a man" or performance masks) and fostering more emotional connection and expressiveness in men as manly, I think we could see divorce rates go down dramatically.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:34 AM   #78
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Good to have you back, Sean.


ditto.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:36 AM   #79
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I think we could see divorce rates go down dramatically.


what's interesting, and i don't have the time to cite it because i'm rushing to get on an airplane soon, is that for people who got married in the 80s and 90s and who are college educated, the divorce rate is really quite low, far lower than the 50% (in the US) that's often cited and pointed to as proof that the sexual revolution was bad for families and children. it seems that couples who are educated, who wait until they are older than 25 to get married, which likely makes them more likely to have had prior sexual experience, and who wait to have children, tend to have much more successful marriages.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:07 AM   #80
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isnt it true that if most guys dont get any physical from a new partner within like 5 dates, they fuck off to find someone who does?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:04 PM   #81
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would unfold in the lesbian-bisexual-sex addiction thread
Correction...getting all these sex threads confused haha...the nanny thread where I said this and killed the thread:

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But for fun, generally speaking, if men can't be monogamous and woman are serially monogamous and divorce rates are 50%+ or whatever it is (demanded by women usually based on bad behaviour by men), what does that mean for our current model of monogamy? Is there a happy medium?

And where does it leave this?


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but my theory is that most women want to be the love of their partners' lives, and most men want to be the exact same thing,
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:31 PM   #82
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people who got married in the 80s and 90s and who are college educated, the divorce rate is really quite low, far lower than the 50% (in the US)
Didn't know that. Would be curious to see the numbers. FWIW, I got married in the 90s. The divorce figure at that time was 50%ish and a number of friends got married the same year so I've always had in my mind that 50% of us wouldn't make it. To date, out of the 6, only one of the couples has divorced and they were the only ones not college-educated.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:01 PM   #83
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however, if one has strong convictions as has been alluded to here that are influenced by, but not solely dictated by, one's moral upbringing and arrives at the conclusion that they shouldn't have sex before marriage for rationally thought out reasons x, y, and z, then i'm all for that. and that's a pro-sex stance, because the definition of actually being pro-sex is that you believe that sex is a good thing in life, that sex is something that people should enjoy and that will bring you joy, but only YOU know best how it can function in your life as a good thing and only YOU know how you will enjoy it and how it will bring you joy. one can be pro-sex and yet believe in abstinence.
For the first time in the history of FYM, I may in fact be closer to your perspective than you think.

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i did beg an answer from nathan because i felt like he was being coy, almost as if he was trying to talk to the kids in their own language and construct a pro-abstinence message out of a position of assumed sexual experience, but which to me rang fairly phony because it assumed that one -- or, really, women (who need our protection) -- is always and only driven to fuck by the worst of motivations, and be left with the worst of consequences.
These assumptions are exactly why I wasn't interested in answering your question. I'm fairly close both to coriander and Sean's expressed opinion on what healthy expressions of sexuality are, and the statistics on STDs, divorce, affairs, etc. should be enough to warn anyone about the consequences of irresponsible sexual activity, regardless of whether or not you subscribe to a religious persuasion. (And the sheer vastness of the numbers should be enough to tell us that when it comes to sex, humans aren't the most responsible of creatures.)

I'm actually reminded of a Bono quote from 1993: "You know, if Freud was even half-right, if sex is even close to the center of our lives, how is it that we leave it to pornographers and dum-dum guys?" It strikes me that in a post-"American Pie"/"Sex and the City"/"Maxim"/"Girls Gone Wild" era, we're still confused about how to deal with/talk about/reflect on/express sex and sexuality. So much of what we think about sex has been reduced to the adolescent level of boob jobs and hook-ups. I mentioned the conflation of sex and love earlier, because I think as a culture we have a hard time distinguishing between the two. (It's like a friend who went into a pitch meeting recently and was told by an executive that the romantic leads needed to sleep together to show the audience they loved each other, "because audiences won't get it unless there's flesh on flesh.") The ancient Greeks understood that love takes many forms, which is why eros, agape, and phileo were different expressions of love. There's a danger in confusing them, and I think that's where we are today. That may even be why (it seems like) we missed the quote in the article that the (stated) goal of CougarLife is to give women a second chance at love. It's no surprise, given the hyper-sexualized world in which we find ourselves, but at the end of the day, sex is still just sex. No more, no less...
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:21 PM   #84
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I'm actually reminded of a Bono quote from 1993: "You know, if Freud was even half-right, if sex is even close to the center of our lives, how is it that we leave it to pornographers and dum-dum guys?" It strikes me that in a post-"American Pie"/"Sex and the City"/"Maxim"/"Girls Gone Wild" era, we're still confused about how to deal with/talk about/reflect on/express sex and sexuality. So much of what we think about sex has been reduced to the adolescent level of boob jobs and hook-ups. I mentioned the conflation of sex and love earlier, because I think as a culture we have a hard time distinguishing between the two. (It's like a friend who went into a pitch meeting recently and was told by an executive that the romantic leads needed to sleep together to show the audience they loved each other, "because audiences won't get it unless there's flesh on flesh.") The ancient Greeks understood that love takes many forms, which is why eros, agape, and phileo were different expressions of love. There's a danger in confusing them, and I think that's where we are today. That may even be why (it seems like) we missed the quote in the article that the (stated) goal of CougarLife is to give women a second chance at love. It's no surprise, given the hyper-sexualized world in which we find ourselves, but at the end of the day, sex is still just sex. No more, no less...
Yes I remember that Bono quote, I think he was also asked about whether he had any sympathy for Madonna (who was at that point getting a hard time over the Sex book) and he said he did.

That said, I am sceptical of the idea that media representations of sexuality make a lot of difference one way or the other, except for the very naive and impressionable.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:06 PM   #85
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what's interesting, and i don't have the time to cite it because i'm rushing to get on an airplane soon, is that for people who got married in the 80s and 90s and who are college educated, the divorce rate is really quite low, far lower than the 50% (in the US) that's often cited and pointed to as proof that the sexual revolution was bad for families and children.
I don't have any hard data but, I, like AliEnvy, do have ancecdotal evidence that seems to support that. I've noticed of late that the overwhelming majority of my classmates from high school are still married. It kind of surprised. I don't know if the other shoe is supposed to drop later or what, but so far, so good.

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isnt it true that if most guys dont get any physical from a new partner within like 5 dates, they fuck off to find someone who does?
My sister and I used to discuss this a lot when she was single, and she would tell you this is absolutely true. She found it very frustrating and it's one of the reasons she decided to dispense with the "wait-till-marriage" idea.

I actually wrote an (unpublished) novel that has ideas about monogamy and sexual temptation as one of it's major themes. I've been thinking about posting it in bits and pieces over at the creativing writing forum here on Interference but I'm not sure whether I want to do that or not (I've never even been in that forum).
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:35 PM   #86
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isnt it true that if most guys dont get any physical from a new partner within like 5 dates, they fuck off to find someone who does?
Generally? Probably yes.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:56 PM   #87
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These assumptions are exactly why I wasn't interested in answering your question.

you'll note that i knew i was making an assumption, which is why i asked for an explanation.


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I'm fairly close both to coriander and Sean's expressed opinion on what healthy expressions of sexuality are, and the statistics on STDs, divorce, affairs, etc. should be enough to warn anyone about the consequences of irresponsible sexual activity, regardless of whether or not you subscribe to a religious persuasion. (And the sheer vastness of the numbers should be enough to tell us that when it comes to sex, humans aren't the most responsible of creatures.)

so fear should guide us?

(it did me)

so, again, what is irresponsible? because the above seems to echo (to bring up one example) the often cited statistic that condoms have only an 80% success rate (which is false). often, "facts" about the potential dangers of sex are wildly inflated by people with abstinence-only agendas.




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I'm actually reminded of a Bono quote from 1993: "You know, if Freud was even half-right, if sex is even close to the center of our lives, how is it that we leave it to pornographers and dum-dum guys?" It strikes me that in a post-"American Pie"/"Sex and the City"/"Maxim"/"Girls Gone Wild" era, we're still confused about how to deal with/talk about/reflect on/express sex and sexuality. So much of what we think about sex has been reduced to the adolescent level of boob jobs and hook-ups.

American culture is notoriously adolescent about sex, i agree, owing much to our Puritan roots and our hyper-capitalistic sell-sell-sell ethos.

for many teenagers, the choice seems to be Purity Rings vs. Internet Porn.

but are we that confused? are things really that bad? do we underestimate kids, and perhaps each other? are we wringing hands over, say, one sensationalistic story about a BJ on a school bus when the reality is that teen pregnancy continues to decline (after a weird uptick last year, i think)? when the divorce rate has continued to drop? when HIV infections have held steady for years?

and all -- pretty much ALL -- of the negative consequences of sex can be eradicated with knowledge. i know people who have had literally hundreds of partners but have never contracted an STD. i know someone who has slept with two people and contracted an STD the second time. what was the difference? protection. so it's really not so much what you do than it is how you do it.

i think empowerment via knowledge is always the best thing, and i think that's something we are all agreeing on here.

there's a fascinating article that i read on the plane today in this month's Atlantic that i'll quote from later once i've had some dinner.



Quote:
The ancient Greeks understood that love takes many forms, which is why eros, agape, and phileo were different expressions of love. There's a danger in confusing them, and I think that's where we are today. That may even be why (it seems like) we missed the quote in the article that the (stated) goal of CougarLife is to give women a second chance at love. It's no surprise, given the hyper-sexualized world in which we find ourselves, but at the end of the day, sex is still just sex. No more, no less...

i find this paragraph utterly confusing.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:34 AM   #88
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So this is very rude of me not to have read the whole thread but..

I am kinda seeing a guy who is ten years younger than me. I've been called a cougar many times. If it's said in a light hearted way then fine. When it's implied that I'm a man eater who only bangs young guys for their looks?
The reality of our relationship is that he has eons of life experience on me. I've been fairly sheltered, he's lived his life to the full. He analysis situations, I jump right in. When I want advice he's always got it covered. He is the mature one here and I'm the silly gal in a lot of ways but it works.

If we were the same age it just wouldn't work.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:10 AM   #89
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^ Your name is Cin with a capital C...C!







(sorry, couldn't help myself lol)
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:31 AM   #90
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so fear should guide us?

....


i think empowerment via knowledge is always the best thing
I agree that knowledge is empowerment and that empowerment generally leads to better outcomes than fear-driven decisions.

But I also think that in terms of healthy sexuality, knowledge goes above and beyond making good choices on STD/pregnancy protection.

As you said, if it appears that teens are faced with purity rings or net porn...how can they determine when sex is just sex and when it forms part of an intimate relationship? How do they determine healthy boundaries?
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