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Old 06-08-2010, 05:05 PM   #196
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Well I guess women can shame their own sexuality too. Hypothetically I'd much rather be a "cougar" having consensual and equal sexual relationships with younger guys, ones that have nothing to do with love or any connection whatsoever, than to have to trade sex with my husband for a girls night out.
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:06 PM   #197
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i think the more interesting aspect of this discussion is just how liberated women are (or can be) from male perceptions of their sexuality, and how much this informs their performance. these things are endlessly contested, and in constant negotiation, but i have to say that i think it's a good thing that we offer more options than just Virgin vs. Whore.
It would be a good thing, I'm not so sure we actually there in terms of offering more options.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:35 PM   #198
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A friend of mine recently left a long term dysfunctional and emotionally abusive relationship. Among some of the things she was pressured into that she didn't want were threesomes and posting their own sex videos to amateur porn sites.
Well, that's just wrong. Not the activities per se which in my view are not immoral if the parties are consenting, but the coercion.


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When another friend of mine really just wants a girls night out, her 'pass' for the night is a blowjob for her hubby before she leaves the house. She's perfectly fine with that quid pro quo and it came up in discussion amongst a few married friends who began joking about what they 'get' for giving sex. I was gobsmacked. In part because I felt really naive, 1) they made it sound like this is commonplace in marriage and had other stories of so and so, etc. 2) it had never even occured to me to use sex in my relationship that way. Still doesn't. Seems so, demeaning. Sex for service, not necessarily for pleasure among equals.

So it's consensual for them, works for their relationships, but I can't help but think it's not quite healthy.

I should add that these are women I generally consider modern and liberated.
It's more juvenile than anything, I wouldn't put it stronger than that. To me it's not remotely on the same level of inappropriateness as the first example.
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:33 PM   #199
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To be honest, I think we put up with a lot in our daily lives that we really don't have to because society has convinced us it's "normal." (Speaking specifically in reference to AliEny's friends, but generalizing more broadly as well).

A few other examples:

I've heard people say that all guys look at pornography--it's normal and no one should object to it. But it's not true that all guys look at pornography, nor do they have to, nor does it have to be tolerated.

I was reading in a magazine the other day about the concept of married guys having a "highlight" reel--other women that they think about when they are having sex with their wives. And it was suggested that this is totally normal and that all (or at least most) men do this. And I just think that a married couple that lives with that kind of normal is missing out on a lot.

I mean if both partners are perfectly okay with these things--well, then hey more power to you. I mean it's not my business. But if one or both partners don't feel good about things like this, I don't think they should be told "well, it's just normal."
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:36 PM   #200
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It would be a good thing, I'm not so sure we actually there in terms of offering more options.


but surely there are more options than there were 30 years ago?
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:31 PM   #201
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There's much more open talk about female sexuality then there was 30 years ago, so there are probably many more women having much more enjoyable sex. Which in turn is likely much more enjoyable for their partners.

But really, the virgin vs whore thing is still firmly entrenched. I can't really think of good examples of other options.
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Old 06-09-2010, 01:42 AM   #202
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The "virgin" thing's very confusing. On the one hand you hear about how guys supposedly "love virgins" 'cause of the feeling involved and the chase and all that sort of thing. On the other hand, you're also made to feel like a loser if you are a virgin (more so this is the case with guys, but girls get made fun of for it, too). And then of course, on the other side, the "whore" label isn't fun, either, 'cause it'll make some guys just expect the girl to give it up, because, hey, she's done it many times before (this is also why I hate it when I hear about a woman's sexual past being brought up in rape cases. People tend to presume things about her based on that stuff, and it's not fair. And if we're going to insist on bringing that into the light, why not bring up the guy's sexual past, too, then?).

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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
To be honest, I think we put up with a lot in our daily lives that we really don't have to because society has convinced us it's "normal." (Speaking specifically in reference to AliEny's friends, but generalizing more broadly as well).

A few other examples:

I've heard people say that all guys look at pornography--it's normal and no one should object to it. But it's not true that all guys look at pornography, nor do they have to, nor does it have to be tolerated.

I was reading in a magazine the other day about the concept of married guys having a "highlight" reel--other women that they think about when they are having sex with their wives. And it was suggested that this is totally normal and that all (or at least most) men do this. And I just think that a married couple that lives with that kind of normal is missing out on a lot.

I mean if both partners are perfectly okay with these things--well, then hey more power to you. I mean it's not my business. But if one or both partners don't feel good about things like this, I don't think they should be told "well, it's just normal."
I fully agree with this. "Normal" is different for everybody. Nobody should ever have to do things they aren't comfortable with. I found that story AliEnvy told a bit weird, too-if I read it right, I don't agree with that at all, either. And I certainly don't support what that girl who left that ugly relationship had to deal with. That's not right.

And speaking of that, I want to say, by the way, it is very refreshing to hear from the guys that have commented thus far. It's nice to see some of these stereotypes about men and sex squashed or explained better from the actual male perspective, it's nice to know that there are still decent, good men out there who are intelligent and respectful about stuff like this. Unfortunately some women lose hope sometimes after hearing about all the stuff guys supposedly want or like or expect in terms of relationships and sex and whatnot, and I appreciate hearing evidence to the contrary. Thank you .

Angela
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Old 06-09-2010, 04:11 AM   #203
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That's not really a lot in 5 months is it.
Mr Financeguy, when Im South, I want to meet you to slap you

just because you do it 10 times a day......
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:20 AM   #204
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If one person wants more sex than the other person in the relationship,
they're a whore
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:31 AM   #205
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LOL!

I see it more that they are just bloody randy all the time and have more need for it than someone else.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:11 PM   #206
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they're a whore
And the one who doesn't want more sex is frigid.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:40 PM   #207
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Mr Financeguy, when Im South, I want to meet you to slap you

just because you do it 10 times a day......
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:28 PM   #208
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And the one who doesn't want more sex is frigid.
gay
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:33 PM   #209
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A feminist.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:50 PM   #210
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Mr Financeguy, when Im South, I want to meet you to slap you
"This recipient has exceeded their private message quota."

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