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Old 08-11-2009, 11:17 PM   #31
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qfmft
Why thank you.


Also, I'd like to add: Those who wish to thank me for my contribution to herd immunity (I *hate* needles ) I accept gifts...and chocolate.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:58 AM   #32
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nobody has addressed the process of making these vaccines or what is in them yet. like the slaughtering monkeys part
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:07 AM   #33
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Well, depends on what vaccine you're talking about, and what step in the process you are talking about?

Some people get upset about the adjuvents that some vaccines use, since it means we are introdicing chemicals into the body. However, they are used to make non-live vaccines and component vaccines more effective - cause you need to irritate the immune system.

There are 3 main types of vaccines: live attenuated, killed, and component. I don't think ( without further research, I won't say with any certainty) many vaccines are made from monkeys per se. Cell culture, to my knowledge is a highly effective and efficient way to produce virus for any of these types of vaccines. I also know chicken embryos are commonly used.

If you want to get into some cell culture controversy, certain cell lines are used because they are abnormal, and have defects that make them essentially ideal nurserys for certain viruses. One of these was a cell biopsy collected from a woman with liver cancer back in the 1950s? I think. Anyway, by one way or another, he discovered virus grew well on these cancer cells. So he used them in culture. The woman died, and decades later her children learned that a part of their mom lived in labs all over the world. She had never given consent, and at the time, he wasn't really expected to ask.
I digress, anyway, I suppose they could use monkeys to attenuate a virus. By getting it to learn to survive in a monkey, it would not be adapted to survive in a human. But, you would have to go through a lot of passages and a lot of monkeys to make it safe, as far as I know. And monkeys are suuuper expensive. (ie, cell culture is easier).

Finally, monkeys may be used to test vaccines. Again, because of expense, most introduce them for final stages testing, the stepping stone before human testing. I cannot speak for all labs, of course, But that would be the logical thing to do, but again, people don't always use logic. Anyway, if this is what you mean, then this is more a discussion of animal testing?

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Old 08-16-2009, 07:38 AM   #34
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A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.

The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.

GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.

The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.

It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:

* More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
* 500 cases of GBS were detected.
* The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times.
* The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with GBS became clear.
* The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected.

Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America | Mail Online
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:12 AM   #35
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^ Right there you have the foundation for what Celente calls the forth shot of the second American revolution where "Tens of millions will fight for their right to remain free and unvaccinated."
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:59 PM   #36
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A third of nurses will refuse to have the swine flu jab | Mail Online

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Up to a third of nurses will say no to the swine flu jab because of concerns over its safety, a poll has found.

NHS workers are first in line for the vaccine, but a survey of 1,500 nurses found many will reject it.

Last night a Government scientist condemned the results saying nurses who do not have the jab are putting patients at risk.
nurse

Nevertheless the poll, by Nursing Times magazine, will raise questions over the Government's planned mass vaccination programme.

Of 1,500 readers, 30 per cent would not say yes to the vaccine, while 33 per cent said maybe. Just 37 per cent said they would definitely have the jab.

Of those who said they would refuse the jab, 60 per cent said their main reason was concern about the safety of the vaccine.

A further 31 per cent said they did not consider the risks to their health from swine flu to be great enough, while 9 per cent thought they would not be able to take time off work to get immunised.

Some 91 per cent described themselves as frontline nurses.

One told the magazine: 'I would not be willing to put myself at risk of unknown long-term effects to facilitate a short-term solution.'

Another added: 'I have yet to be convinced there is a genuine health risk and it's not just Government propaganda.'

But Professor David Salisbury, the Department of Health's director of immunisation, reckoned it was unfortunate nurses would 'knowingly leave themselves at risk'.

He added: 'They have a duty to their patients and they have a duty to their families. I think you solve those responsibilities by being vaccinated.'

And Chief Nursing Officer Christine Beasley insisted: 'Frontline nurses will be absolutely crucial in the height of a pandemic without them, patient care will suffer and the NHS will be stretched.

'Getting the vaccine will protect nurses and their patients. That's why we're offering frontline nurses the vaccine as a top priority.'

The jab, currently being fast tracked, will not be fully tested before it is administered.

There will be no tests at all carried out on children under three, even though babies and children at high risk will be among the first to get the vaccine.

There are also concerns the jab can cause Guillain Barre Syndrome, which can lead to paralysis and even death.

A mass swine flu vaccination in the U.S. in 1976 caused far more deaths than the disease it was designed to combat and the Health Protection Agency watchdog has asked doctors to be on the lookout for cases of GBS.

Last week Chief Medical Officer Sir Liam Donaldson announced the jab will be given to high-risk groups with asthma or diabetes, as well as health workers.

Some 14million will be covered by the first wave of the vaccination programme.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:03 AM   #37
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"the jab"?

I like that.
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:46 AM   #38
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my family and i have had some pretty bad experiences with them in the past.
As long as pretty bad = still alive then I don't see the problem.

I got a Yellow Fever vaccine and holy shit I thought I was losing my mind for 12 hours but hey what's 12 hours of sweats and hallucinations compared to actually having Yellow Fever? Other than that, I've never had any problems with vaccines beyond soreness. I make sure to stay up-to-date with my tetanus because of the work I do with dogs (not that they spread it but the constructing, using, and moving equipment for dog training and competition). I just had one this year and the Dr. recommended I get one that was a combo for pertussis since apparently that is coming back.

Personally I feel like unless one has a valid medical reason, most vaccinations should be mandatory. I follow the normal protocol for myself and all my animals. If I didn't trust my doctor or my vet then I'd find a new one. It's insane to me to think that a little bit of research makes me more qualified to make medical decisions, especially ones that could be life or death for me, or someone else.

I know people that freak out about the chemicals and whatnot and don't realize there are probably more chemicals in their daily Big Gulp soda drink or toothpaste.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:04 AM   #39
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As long as pretty bad = still alive then I don't see the problem.
one of them was pretty bad = dead.

i guess permanent scars that were unnecessary are no big deal. and unnecessary medications turning family members into nutcases and ruining family relationships.... nah, no problem.

BUT, the overpriced insurance paid for all that, so what the hell
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:43 PM   #40
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i guess permanent scars that were unnecessary are no big deal. and unnecessary medications turning family members into nutcases and ruining family relationships....
If we are still talking about reactions to vaccines (which is what I was referring to), then it seems some sort of scarring and needing medications would fall under the umbrella of a "medical reason" not to receive a certain vaccine.
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:49 PM   #41
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If we are still talking about reactions to vaccines (which is what I was referring to), then it seems some sort of scarring and needing medications would fall under the umbrella of a "medical reason" not to receive a certain vaccine.
well my original "bad experiences" comment was directed at medical field in general, not just vaccines.
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:52 PM   #42
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I got a Yellow Fever vaccine and holy shit I thought I was losing my mind for 12 hours but hey what's 12 hours of sweats and hallucinations compared to actually having Yellow Fever?
Theres a vaccine for that? I should tell my buddy Grant about it
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:06 PM   #43
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Its bad the corparation behind this sure, but you need a sample of the disease in question in order to produce a vaccine, so like it or not, its pretty likely animals will be involved, like they are in 99.9% of medication production in one way or another. Be it testing or as a resource.

RE Swine Flu Jabs, Im not willing to accept that statistic since its a survey of 1500 people. I'd be more than willing to have my jab (assuming I get offered it) as long as I knew the risks. Its unfortunate that these swine flu jabs are a bit of a rush job, otherwise Im sure a lot more testing could be done with regards to their safety.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:58 PM   #44
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I will have the vaccine as long as it's not worse/same than the strain itself.
I've had a flu vaccine for at least the last 15 years or so and have only had the flu once.
That was during a year the the vaccine didn't cover the flu I had.
Ya know - Shit happens.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:33 PM   #45
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I haven't gotten a flu vaccine recently, but only b/c I didn't feel like paying for it since it doesn't always work and flu (for me) would not be life or death. I haven't had the flu in years either, though. If I don't get a vaccine, it's b/c it's not a life or death thing and I don't have money, otherwise I get anything the Dr. recommends, and also the recommended vaccines for when I went to Africa (Yellow Fever, Hep A, and Typhoid; already had MMR, tetanus, and Hep B; was told polio was basically no-risk for our area, and rabies would not be needed since we were not touching animals). At Dr. recommendation, I did not get the HPV vaccine when that came out but if I had a young daughter, she would get it.

If there's a swine flu vaccine, again I'll just decide based on what my Dr. recommends.
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