College Student Sues Over His Anti Gay Marriage Speech - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-18-2009, 07:51 PM   #46
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is this really what we're talking about here?

it's quite sad to me that you seem to think that being a bigot is an inherent part of the free practice of your religion.

is the practice of religion -- as you and said speaker seem to see it -- the same thing as free speech? do we let people do whatever they want -- like take multiple wives -- because of their freedom of religion?

we have laws, and the religious have to obey them even at the expense of their view of whatever their free practice is.

what would have happened had a student delivered a speech on how blacks were stupid and based this on phrenology? what would have happened had student given a speech warning students about the Yellow Peril that was sweeping the west coast? about how Jews have long noses that enable them to sniff out whether or not you've got money in your pockets and big brains that they'll use to swindle you out of your last nickel?

because such free speech is about as coherent, informed, and responsible as whatever you seem to think Christianity says about the status of legal marriage in the United States.

I understand your personal stake in this but you're just muddying the issue.

Show me the text of the speech and I'll let you know if I believe it hateful, inflammatory or proselytizing--or just one student's opinion, based upon his religious beliefs, regarding the issue of legalizing same-sex marriage.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:58 PM   #47
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The antichrist is sitting now in the Whitehouse... The Beast Obama
I knew it.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:59 PM   #48
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If you understand his personal stake how can you possibly dismiss such a cogent argument as muddying the waters, what is your stake in this?

How you can deny gays the privilege of marriage which you can enjoy and then make an argument in the name of freedom is unabashed hypocrisy, your religious conviction that gay marriage is inherently immoral has nothing to do with the law.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:21 PM   #49
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If you understand his personal stake how can you possibly dismiss such a cogent argument as muddying the waters, what is your stake in this?
We've had the "law" discussion, this is about the ability to comment, either in support or against, a law and the need to recognize opposing points of view as something other than evil.
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How you can deny gays the privilege of marriage which you can enjoy and then make an argument in the name of freedom is unabashed hypocrisy, your religious conviction that gay marriage is inherently immoral has nothing to do with the law.
And what of the freedom to vote your conscience? The freedom of religious expression? Or the ability of a free society, while recognizing individual rights, to shape itself by limiting "privileges" as it deems necessary.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:43 PM   #50
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"Don't offend some in the audience" was not a requirement of any public speaking class I've been a part of.


If the student's position was poorly argued, and it sounds like it might have been, he should receive a poor grade.
But we don't know what his speech was. He might have been specifically attacking gay people, not just stating that he personally believed 'gay people shouldn't wed, and here's why.' We don't know the whole story, so we're not really in the position to state that he was or wasn't offensive.

It sounds, though, that the professor was offended, and that several students were offended, so most likely, it was poorly argued and filled with hate diatribe.

Regardless, it was a poor choice for a speech. Especially considering that Proposition 8 had just been passed, and people were already sensitive to the issue. It's like walking up to a man holding a stick of dynamite with a loaded gun.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:46 PM   #51
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And what of the freedom to vote your conscience? The freedom of religious expression? Or the ability of a free society, while recognizing individual rights, to shape itself by limiting "privileges" as it deems necessary.
When your conscience and religious expression are flat out wrong and impede on others rights, then the freedom of the people take precedent.

What if my "conscience" and religious expression was to deny you rights?

You'd still be singing the same old worn out song and dance? I think not.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:39 PM   #52
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I understand your personal stake in this but you're just muddying the issue.

Show me the text of the speech and I'll let you know if I believe it hateful, inflammatory or proselytizing--or just one student's opinion, based upon his religious beliefs, regarding the issue of legalizing same-sex marriage.


i'm sure 15th century Passion Plays that incited the christians to go out and kill the jews were just based upon religious beliefs.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:41 PM   #53
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And what of the freedom to vote your conscience? The freedom of religious expression? Or the ability of a free society, while recognizing individual rights, to shape itself by limiting "privileges" as it deems necessary.


again: why is it only okay to do this to the gays?

name me another clearly defined, identifiable, socially understood and historically discriminated against group of people who are categorically denied legal rights on the basis of nothing other than the will of the majority.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:23 PM   #54
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name me another clearly defined, identifiable, socially understood and historically discriminated against group of people who are categorically denied legal rights on the basis of nothing other than the will of the majority.
Does this victimized minority also have to be way above the U.S. median in both education and income with a supportive popular culture?
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:26 PM   #55
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Are you talking about the Jews?
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:16 AM   #56
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Does this victimized minority also have to be way above the U.S. median in both education and income with a supportive popular culture?


you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, and i don't think you have any idea just how breathtakingly obtuse you're being to the very real discrimination and very real, very deep pain felt by gay people across all strata of society.

think about this. why, do you think, it appears that gay men -- you're only talking about the boys with your statement -- are so educated and wealthy?

could it be because it's only safe to come out if you are educated and wealthy?
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:26 AM   #57
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Does this victimized minority also have to be way above the U.S. median in both education and income with a supportive popular culture?

Just embarassing...
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:29 AM   #58
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very honestly, i'm in a world of hurt right now. i'm not going to get into it.

but i will guarantee you that it's entirely because i'm gay.

NLOTH couldn't have arrived at a better time.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:50 AM   #59
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Attention gays and lesbians: you have good salaries and are generally hard-working, educated folks. Stop whining about "discrimination" and such things. Heaven knows that in reality, Matthew Shepherd was actually privileged. Surely he didn't experience the pain of the lower-class white Christian man.
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:06 AM   #60
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i don't think you have any idea just how breathtakingly obtuse you're being to the very real discrimination and very real, very deep pain felt by gay people across all strata of society.

I think he does know. I think it just doesn't matter to him.
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