College freshman commits suicide after sex tape posted on internet by roommate

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Yeah-certainly the bullying isn't helping one bit and just added to the hell these kids are going through to where they're killing themselves so young, but I have to think there's other factors that would be in play, too. History of depression or things of that nature in the family, the family itself can sometimes be tormentors before the kids even encounter other members of society, etc., etc. I've always understood it that there's never one specific thing that drives people to suicide, it seems to be a multitude of problems building up, and then there's an event that's just the final straw. Tons of kids all over the country get bullied day in and day out and don't resort to suicide, so I have to imagine there's other factors at play that are causing this to happen, and the bullying's just part of the fuel on the fire.

Whatever the reasons, these stories are horrific and something desperately needs to be done to stop this, no question.

Where are the parents of these bullying children? Where were the parents of the kids at Rutgers?

I suspect some of them probably do a lot of bullying themselves.

Angela
 
I would just like to know why two 13 year olds have commited suicide. Honestly, I'd expect someone of that age to draw a gun on someone else before they draw it on themselves. Consideirng they were only 13, dont you think that it either must have been really bad bullying or really overly dramatic handling of the situation or maybe they were influenced by the other suicides?
What makes you believe that 13 year olds are more likely to take out their depression outwardly rather than inwardly?


I mean... how can a 13 year old, who likely just entered puberty, decide they are gay, come out of the closet that fast, and have enough bullying to want to commit suicide? Seems awfully quick...

I'd say each suicide is influencing the next.

Did you decide you were straight at age 14?

I seriously doubt that each suicide is influencing the next.

Do you really think it matters if the child was gay, straight, out of the closet, or in the closet? The last article didn't even mention the kid was out of the closet, it just said the kids accussed him of being gay and constantly bullied him.
 
something about the reaction to this story has really bothered me.

obviously this is a horrible story, and similar stories have been repeated far too often throughout the nation, and the world as a whole. bullying is a terrible thing, and it has been for a long, long time, in whatever form it may be in... cyber or otherwise.

but there's a large part of this story that is just floating by without being addressed, and that is the issue of our culture's obsession with the invasion of privacy.

feeling the need to hide who you really are, and being driven to suicide when that is revealed to the world is a horrible horrible thing that needs to change, but one could certainly see the same situation being played out where a straight female was unknowingly broadcast to the world engaged in a sexual act that was supposed to be private; or any other number of situations.

to listen to perez hilton get up and preach about how sad he is about this situation makes my stomach curl. this is a man who's entire being is based around embarrassing people, putting pictures and videos and audio of what was once a private thing and blasting it to the world. he, himself, has outted gay celebrities before. does he not understand what he's doing? do you think clay aiken was all peachy about the pictures posted? what about miley cyrus? britney spears? ricky martin? lance bass? erin andrews? what, because these people are celebrities they can not possibly be depressed? suicidal? perez hilton is the #1 cyber bully in the world.

we're all guilty of what these two college kids have done. every one of us. as sad as this story makes you feel... think to yourself if you've ever gone to TMZ, or perezhilton.com, or radaronline, or any of the other rags whose sole purpose is the embarrassment of other human beings.

when the erin andrews story broke, the news outlets could have refused to show screencaps. they didn't. they showed them. and we all watched.

we are a voyeur society. we relish in the embarrassment of others, and then blame everyone else when that person lashes out, or takes their own life.

we are all to blame.
 
to listen to perez hilton get up and preach about how sad he is about this situation makes my stomach curl. this is a man who's entire being is based around embarrassing people, putting pictures and videos and audio of what was once a private thing and blasting it to the world. he, himself, has outted gay celebrities before. does he not understand what he's doing? do you think clay aiken was all peachy about the pictures posted? what about miley cyrus? britney spears? ricky martin? lance bass? erin andrews? what, because these people are celebrities they can not possibly be depressed? suicidal? perez hilton is the #1 cyber bully in the world.

we're all guilty of what these two college kids have done. every one of us. as sad as this story makes you feel... think to yourself if you've ever gone to TMZ, or perezhilton.com, or radaronline, or any of the other rags whose sole purpose is the embarrassment of other human beings.

when the erin andrews story broke, the news outlets could have refused to show screencaps. they didn't. they showed them. and we all watched.

we are a voyeur society. we relish in the embarrassment of others, and then blame everyone else when that person lashes out, or takes their own life.

we are all to blame.

I agree and disagree... Perez is a hypocrite. But I believe there is a difference to what a celebrity does out in public and what you are talking about.

I don't know the Erin Andrews story, I know who she is but I don't know of what story you're talking about.

What goes on behind closed doors, in the privacy of your own home, backyard, etc should be completely off limits and I will not condone or get sucked into anything that exploits such voyeurism.
 
i'm not talking about someone who goes out and does something stupid in the public spotlight. i'm talking about the constant harassment and stalking and leaking of private images, recordings, voicemails, etc. etc. that this culture thrives on.

in no way do i compare what tiger woods has gone through to what this kid had to deal with... but i will use tiger as an example as to how sick our society is. what did he do that was in the public spotlight? he got into a car crash. in the past that would have been it. but we needed to know why... why was he out that late, what were the circumstances, blah blah blah. then came the voicemails and text messages. all things that are private things, broadcasted across the world for all to see. now tiger is seen as a scumbag, and rightfully so... but what did he do publicly? nothing.

erin andrews is an ESPN sideline reporter who had a stalker take video of her getting undressed in her hotel room and posted it on the internet. it could have ended there... but it didn't. there it was on the evening news... "just a horrible, horrible story... and here's the video!" it's disgusting... but we watched.

lance bass was being outted in the press, and by this hypocritical piece of shit perez hilton, years before he came out publicly. same goes for ricky martin.

this is the society in which we live in... where nothing is private any longer. nobody is safe. public humiliation is a billion dollar industry in western culture. we are horrified when it all goes wrong, but we keep on doing it anyways.
 
What makes you believe that 13 year olds are more likely to take out their depression outwardly rather than inwardly?

It's harder for a younger mind to understand the difference between right and wrong. They're more likely to seek revenge in the search of acceptance. I didnt mean the comment literally, I doubt any of them would draw a gun on anybody either. Just making the point that I dont understand why they killed themselves at such a young age.


Did you decide you were straight at age 14?

I seriously doubt that each suicide is influencing the next.

Do you really think it matters if the child was gay, straight, out of the closet, or in the closet? The last article didn't even mention the kid was out of the closet, it just said the kids accussed him of being gay and constantly bullied him.

What's your point here? Most people who are gay do not realize they're gay or do not come out about it until later in life. My point is that this kid could've only been publically gay for so long considering you dont really develop feelings for someone else until you have gone through puberty. So the idea that... oh... a single year of middle school was so bad that it drove this kid to suicide... keep in mind that many in the LGBT community go through such torture for years and years... it's kind of unbelieveable.

For a 13 year old to commit suicide, that's an extremely young age. There must've either been something prosecutably wrong, more than just issues about being teased, the suicides are influencing each other, or something.

I never said anything about it mattering what his sexuality was. Do not lecture me, I fully support anybody and there decision of sexuality. In the case of Seth Walsh, it appears as though that kid was openly gay. It also appears as though he's not the first to hang himself.

Suicide is often a cause of many things at once, not just one thing.
 
What do you expect them to do? It sounds to me like quite a few of the ones who have commited suicide have had their parents support.

It's society that needs to change. It's really depressing to think that it's come to this.

I would just like to know why two 13 year olds have commited suicide. Honestly, I'd expect someone of that age to draw a gun on someone else before they draw it on themselves. Consideirng they were only 13, dont you think that it either must have been really bad bullying or really overly dramatic handling of the situation or maybe they were influenced by the other suicides?

I mean... how can a 13 year old, who likely just entered puberty, decide they are gay, come out of the closet that fast, and have enough bullying to want to commit suicide? Seems awfully quick...

I'd say each suicide is influencing the next.


I knew at age thirteen. I was heterosexual. Though, I wasn't allowed to date or anything like that.

I tell you exactly what. I expect other parents to do. Raise your children to be respectful of all others. It is never "okay" to call anyone a faggot, queer, lesbo, etc. All human beings have feelings and rights. I as a parent/grand parent have never used "nasty, hateful words." And neither do my grown children. Life lessons begin at home.
 
What's your point here? Most people who are gay do not realize they're gay or do not come out about it until later in life. My point is that this kid could've only been publically gay for so long considering you dont really develop feelings for someone else until you have gone through puberty. So the idea that... oh... a single year of middle school was so bad that it drove this kid to suicide... keep in mind that many in the LGBT community go through such torture for years and years... it's kind of unbelieveable.
Realize and coming out are two different things, I know of plenty people who knew they were gay since kindergarten. I knew I was straight then, why should it be different? But my point was that it really doesn't matter if he was out or not, the story of this last 13 year old had nothing to do with him being out, the kids just bullied him about it anyways. That was my only point.
For a 13 year old to commit suicide, that's an extremely young age. There must've either been something prosecutably wrong, more than just issues about being teased, the suicides are influencing each other, or something.
I think there is a difference between 'teased' and 'bullied'. 13 is a tender age and everyone matures differently, teenage suicide is not uncommon what some feel at 17 some can feel as early as 13.

I don't buy that the suicides are influenced by others, it just doesn't fit what we know about suicide and depression.
I never said anything about it mattering what his sexuality was. Do not lecture me, I fully support anybody and there decision of sexuality. In the case of Seth Walsh, it appears as though that kid was openly gay. It also appears as though he's not the first to hang himself.
I'm not lecturing most of my post were questions, just trying to figure out why you can't fathom that the barrage of bullying was enough.
 
I knew at age thirteen. I was heterosexual. Though, I wasn't allowed to date or anything like that.

I tell you exactly what. I expect other parents to do. Raise your children to be respectful of all others. It is never "okay" to call anyone a faggot, queer, lesbo, etc. All human beings have feelings and rights. I as a parent/grand parent have never used "nasty, hateful words." And neither do my grown children. Life lessons begin at home.

It's easy to know if you're straight... go ahead and talk to some homosexual people. Some figure it out early... others dont.

That's not the point though. Completely off it, really. It's the point that no kindergardener (see the post below you) comes out of the closet or gets ridiculed for being homosexual. That stuff happens when? In middle school. You start middle school turning 12 years old. The fact is that this kid, in all likelihood, was only mocked/teased/bullied/these terms are all synonymous/etc. for about a year or two. Most people who go through this suffer for years before taking that option.

There is more to this than just a kid who was bullied.
 
Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17.

Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17.

Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17.

Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17.

Here's one from Tim Gunn, explaining that he attempted suicide when he was 17.



i mean, it's TIM GUNN.

this should tell you the deep psychological wounds that homophobia inflicts on even the most confident, intelligent, everything-in-the-world-to-live-for individuals. i would imagine that more LGBT individuals have been suicidal at various points than not.
 
It's easy to know if you're straight... go ahead and talk to some homosexual people. Some figure it out early... others dont.

That's not the point though. Completely off it, really. It's the point that no kindergardener (see the post below you) comes out of the closet or gets ridiculed for being homosexual. That stuff happens when? In middle school. You start middle school turning 12 years old. The fact is that this kid, in all likelihood, was only mocked/teased/bullied/these terms are all synonymous/etc. for about a year or two. Most people who go through this suffer for years before taking that option.

There is more to this than just a kid who was bullied.

I never said these people came out during kindergarten, just that they knew.

I think you're missing the point that Seth may have been bullied well before he came out as well. You seem to be stuck on the timeline and looking for some conspiracy or something. Everyone is different and maybe a year of severe bullying was all it took, for this individual that already had self confidence issues or depression to reach a point where they felt they couldn't handle it anymore.

I just find your speculations very odd.
 
It's easy to know if you're straight... go ahead and talk to some homosexual people. Some figure it out early... others dont.

That's not the point though. Completely off it, really. It's the point that no kindergardener (see the post below you) comes out of the closet or gets ridiculed for being homosexual. That stuff happens when? In middle school. You start middle school turning 12 years old. The fact is that this kid, in all likelihood, was only mocked/teased/bullied/these terms are all synonymous/etc. for about a year or two. Most people who go through this suffer for years before taking that option.

There is more to this than just a kid who was bullied.

Maybe I'm daft but I'm totally missing your point. You've never seen or heard of a kid under the age of 14 being bullied? I saw kids in my own class get picked on when I was in 2nd grade, I remember it well. One boy always picked on another boy (as in, he would attack him and starting fighting him physically for no reason other than the boy being bullied was small, looked kinda weird, and acted strange). It happens everyday. Not all homosexuals are bullied and not all bullying has to do with homophobia.
 
kids use the words "gay" and "fag" and whatever as schoolyard taunts from a very young age, if memory serves around 3rd grade.

we should also remember that straight kids, and prepubescent kids, can be the victim of homophobic bullying as well.
 
Maybe I'm daft but I'm totally missing your point. You've never seen or heard of a kid under the age of 14 being bullied? I saw kids in my own class get picked on when I was in 2nd grade, I remember it well. One boy always picked on another boy (as in, he would attack him and starting fighting him physically for no reason other than the boy being bullied was small, looked kinda weird, and acted strange). It happens everyday. Not all homosexuals are bullied and not all bullying has to do with homophobia.

You are missing my point. And it's 13 we're talking about here.

I never said all homosexuals are bullied and I never said all bullying has to do with homophobia. I never made that case.

I'm saying that they're acting way ahead of their age here. 13 year olds dont just go out commiting suicide for being bullied. Look here -

Children ages 10 to 14 — 0.9 per 100,000
Adolescents ages 15 to 19 — 6.9 per 100,000
Young adults ages 20 to 24 — 12.7 per 100,000

The point I'm trying to make is that emotional stress will not begin to destroy you on the inside if you're 10 years old. Bullying might suck for you, but it's really hard for an undeveloped mind to go to such a dark place.

If he was bullied and taunted for being gay, it could only have been going on for so long, because he was only 13 years old. So either he was a very weak individual (I mean that in no disprespect, rest in peace), or was tormented beyond belief. Or he got the idea from someone else.

With most kids, and most suicides, the most delicate age is going to be those high school and early college years between 15 and 19. So the fact that when I was reading the article about the 6 or 7 that have killed themselves so far, I was quite shocked to learn that two of them are 13 years old.
 
I'm saying that they're acting way ahead of their age here. 13 year olds dont just go out commiting suicide for being bullied. Look here -

Children ages 10 to 14 — 0.9 per 100,000
Adolescents ages 15 to 19 — 6.9 per 100,000
Young adults ages 20 to 24 — 12.7 per 100,000

By 2006 this number had risen to 1.3 per 100,000 for 10-14 year olds. I can't seem to find any 2009 numbers.


The point I'm trying to make is that emotional stress will not begin to destroy you on the inside if you're 10 years old. Bullying might suck for you, but it's really hard for an undeveloped mind to go to such a dark place.

If he was bullied and taunted for being gay, it could only have been going on for so long, because he was only 13 years old. So either he was a very weak individual (I mean that in no disprespect, rest in peace), or was tormented beyond belief. Or he got the idea from someone else.

With most kids, and most suicides, the most delicate age is going to be those high school and early college years between 15 and 19. So the fact that when I was reading the article about the 6 or 7 that have killed themselves so far, I was quite shocked to learn that two of them are 13 years old.

I just have a hard time understanding why you don't believe it's possible for a 13 year old to be shattered by constant bullying yet you do believe it's possible that a 13 year old can be influenced into suicide. That baffles me.
 
i mean, it's TIM GUNN.

this should tell you the deep psychological wounds that homophobia inflicts on even the most confident, intelligent, everything-in-the-world-to-live-for individuals. i would imagine that more LGBT individuals have been suicidal at various points than not.

I read his new book and he definitely grew up in a different time-but his childhood dynamics could be anyone's, could be any gay teen's dynamic. I don't think his father was all that interested in him because Tim wasn't into sports and all that-and his mother doesn't fully acknowledge the fact that he's gay to this day. She just asks him isn't he afraid of being alone in his old age. I believe he says he was bullied by other kids.

I don't understand at all why it's hard to believe that any bullied child would resort to suicide because of bullying, so I think it's even more plausible for a gay child. I remember what it was like to be 13, and I had it much easier as far as being teased or bullied. I can't imagine what it's like for a gay teen who is struggling to deal with that additional harassment from people . At the same time they're trying to accept themselves as kids who just happen to be gay.

I don't see anything "weak" about a 13 year old who can't handle being emotionally and physically tormented. Thirteen and fifteen-not much difference. It's really just a number, every child is different emotionally and developmentally. Kids don't follow any strict rules as to how they can cope with abuse from others according to their age.
 
You are missing my point. And it's 13 we're talking about here.

I never said all homosexuals are bullied and I never said all bullying has to do with homophobia. I never made that case.

I'm saying that they're acting way ahead of their age here. 13 year olds dont just go out commiting suicide for being bullied. Look here -

Children ages 10 to 14 — 0.9 per 100,000
Adolescents ages 15 to 19 — 6.9 per 100,000
Young adults ages 20 to 24 — 12.7 per 100,000

The point I'm trying to make is that emotional stress will not begin to destroy you on the inside if you're 10 years old. Bullying might suck for you, but it's really hard for an undeveloped mind to go to such a dark place.

If he was bullied and taunted for being gay, it could only have been going on for so long, because he was only 13 years old. So either he was a very weak individual (I mean that in no disprespect, rest in peace), or was tormented beyond belief. Or he got the idea from someone else.

With most kids, and most suicides, the most delicate age is going to be those high school and early college years between 15 and 19. So the fact that when I was reading the article about the 6 or 7 that have killed themselves so far, I was quite shocked to learn that two of them are 13 years old.


I guess I don't see why this even matters? Are you saying that these kids did NOT commit suicide? They don't fit your nice data sets so obviously there is a new trend here, I think that is the point many people are trying to draw attention to. Saying that it just can't happen is denial. Obviously it IS happening so what can be done about it?

By 13 years old I was completely physically mature. Now, I was a "normal" kid with a fairly normal life so I was not subject bullying or overly stressed by a bad home situation, but when you are 13 and your body is 100% developed but your emotions (as you say, and I tend to agree) are not, then to me it only makes sense that a 13 year old has a hard time coping with stress like constant bullying and would resort to overly drastic measures like suicide because of emotional immaturity and a lack of coping skills (which I think is a problem overall with the younger generations, kids seem more and more to be losing the ability to cope). Like I said, I was normal, did well in school, was not strange looking or strange acting, had friends and all that, and even I felt self-conscious and anxious more often than not. I don't want to imagine what it would have been like under the pressure of constant bullying and harassment. As an 11 year old I had enough confusion and self-consciousness about my own body without that thrown into the mix.
 
I would guarantee it.

And they bully the members of the "lame-ass" educational system that try to stop their kids.

Oh, yes, that, too. They do that, and then if something horrible happens, they turn around and go, "Why didn't the school do something, blah, blah, blah". Like I've said before, I remember a lot of the kids I went to school with who were bullies grew up in homes where they had little to no parental guidance of any kind. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know how much longer it has to go on before we start holding not only the kids accountable, but the "parents" that encourage such behavior.

I also think Headache's post is spot on, too. Certainly society doesn't help matters by getting off on watching this stuff unfold. We have to know every last little detail of everyone's lives and hold it up to absolute scrutiny-I'm sorry, I like having some modicum of privacy. I think everybody deserves that in their lives. I don't know why people constantly feel every minute detail of their lives are worth sharing or why people feel they need to know such things. It especially is bad in the sex/body arena, and of course, I know why that stuff is so fascinating to other people, but at the same time I don't. Do people honestly think the issues related to those two things are so wildly different from person to person?

As for Tim Gunn, I've only seen a few interviews on TV with him here and there, but from what I've observed about him, he sounds like a really cool, likable guy :). I'm very sorry to hear about what he went through as a teenager, and I'm glad to hear/see that he was able to move past those struggles and go on to have a life he clearly enjoys living. I've no doubt he's an inspiration for quite a few people out there, so hopefully they'll take his story to heart and can fight through whatever pain they're dealing with in their own lives.

Angela
 
What about "I saw him making out with a dude. Yay"?

Clementi Tragedy: Tech Teens' Lust to Expose Isn't Same as Gay-Bashing - New America Media

New America Media, Op-ed, Sandip Roy, Posted: Oct 01, 2010

After two decades in the United States, I still feel a thrill of recognition when I see a South Asian name in the media. A winner on a cooking show on the Food Network, a congressional candidate in Kansas, a new appointee to some team on the White House - it does not matter, there is always that twinge of pride.

I look out for these names.

That was why I noticed Dharun Ravi’s name. And felt a chill go through me. Tyler Clementi, 18, had jumped off the George Washington Bridge after his roommate and a friend secretly taped him on their webcam having a sexual encounter with another man. And then they streamed it on the Internet.

The roommate’s name was Dharun Ravi. The headline on one article said “Dharun Ravi: The Reason for Tyler Clementi’s Suicide.”

It has a picture of Ravi and the other person involved, Molly Wei. They look like high school yearbook photos. Ravi has curly hair, and a broad smile. He is wearing a black tie and black jacket. He looks like my cousins in New Jersey, the ones that go to Bhangra parties and have stellar GPAs.

It’s easy to call this a horrifying example of homophobia. Ellen Degeneres recorded a moving message about how even in 2010, teenagers are killing themselves because they get bullied for appearing gay.

Yet, I am not sure that is the story. I know nothing about Ravi. I just kept thinking as a newly arrived Indian college student in America, I would have not dared to come out to folks like Ravi’s parents. I would think they would not understand.

But, I would have had no qualms coming out to someone like Dharun Ravi.

My activist friend Urvashi Vaid who went on to head the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force often said not to worry about the conservatism of the uncle-auntie generation of the Indian immigrant community. It’s all changing with the next generation, she’d say. Her nephew was cool with all this. As is my niece. They have grown up knowing gay people. It’s not a big deal.

Could it be too much “not a big deal?” I don’t think it’s as simple as saying Ravi was homophobic. This is not Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming, pistol-whipped and left to die, tied to a fence like a scarecrow by men he met at a bar. That was 1998.

This is 2010. Clementi was out to Ravi. He requested permission to use the room to entertain his date. He complained on a forum that his roommate was tweeting about him and had turned the webcam on. He thought about moving out but worried a new roommate could be worse. He said he was “pissed” and his roommate was “obnoxious.” He sounds annoyed, not suicidal, paranoid about finding all the webcams.

In a strange way this is about a nonchalance around sexuality where it has become a public sport. A few years ago, a teenager in India videotaped his female classmate performing oral sex on him on his cell phone and emailed it around. It got auctioned off on India's subsidiary of eBay and became a viral sensation. The young woman apparently had to leave the country. Did he intend to hound her out of the country? Probably not. Just as Ravi and Wei probably never intended for Clementi to jump off a bridge.

Maybe they thought they were just having fun. A sort of online game of showmanship and truth-or-dare with ever higher stakes. Privacy meant nothing. It was just a game and they needed to outfox Clementi to get to the next level. We want people to watch us online. We want them to follow us on Twitter. We don’t care that our online hijinks have real-life consequences. It’s as if we get more points in our virtual worlds if we catch our friends in flagrante delicto. We are perpetually on candid camera, playing gotcha with our webcams.

Coming out has always been a lonely process. You could grow up in a country with a billion people and not know how to find another gay person. I remember standing in a phone booth in Mumbai, trying to pluck up the courage to call a newsweekly because one of their editors had come out as gay in an article I had read. I never did make the call.

The Internet changed that. Now gay men and women, coming out in small towns, in remote corners can safely find other people to chat with, create virtual world wide webs of support while sitting in their own bedrooms. An Internet group in India, GayBombay eventually became a flesh-and-blood group that hosted parent support meets.

Yet, Clementi's death proves the Internet is a double-edged sword. Ravi and Wei are accused by the media of sexually harassing and bullying Clementi. That they could have done any time, in person, in private. They were not even trying to out him. They just wanted the world to see him online with his pants down. They wanted to tweet about it. They wanted to make his private encounter a "free show" for the world to see. They probably thought it was not a big deal. But it was. Horribly so. Done without his consent and streamed to the whole world to see.

It's just life in the online world where everything is fair game and privacy is just a Facebook option.

Chillingly, Clementi left behind his last message as an update on his Facebook page.

"Jumping off the gw bridge, sorry."


Sandip Roy

Posted 3 days ago

I dont think I am trying to excuse their behavior or justify it. I am just saying the story is more complicated than a straightforward case of homophobia. Look, I am Indian American, I know there is homophobia in spades in my community. But in this case, i think there is also something going on about the role of privacy and our online lives. It struck me that the way we have tried to reconstruct what happened was from online records. The way these two kids tried to humiliate Clementi was online. The way Clementi left his "suicide note" was online.
 
I guess I don't see why this even matters? Are you saying that these kids did NOT commit suicide? They don't fit your nice data sets so obviously there is a new trend here, I think that is the point many people are trying to draw attention to. Saying that it just can't happen is denial. Obviously it IS happening so what can be done about it?

By 13 years old I was completely physically mature. Now, I was a "normal" kid with a fairly normal life so I was not subject bullying or overly stressed by a bad home situation, but when you are 13 and your body is 100% developed but your emotions (as you say, and I tend to agree) are not, then to me it only makes sense that a 13 year old has a hard time coping with stress like constant bullying and would resort to overly drastic measures like suicide because of emotional immaturity and a lack of coping skills (which I think is a problem overall with the younger generations, kids seem more and more to be losing the ability to cope). Like I said, I was normal, did well in school, was not strange looking or strange acting, had friends and all that, and even I felt self-conscious and anxious more often than not. I don't want to imagine what it would have been like under the pressure of constant bullying and harassment. As an 11 year old I had enough confusion and self-consciousness about my own body without that thrown into the mix.

What? Where are you getting this ridiculous notion? Where did I once conspire against anybody, or claim that they didnt actually commot suicide? And why are you being so obnoxious? No, I'm not saying any of this.

Most people are not physically matured at age 13. I'm not saying you were not, but most people are not done growing until their junior year or so in high school.

That's besides the matter. You're looking right through my point. You seem to think that I am trying to say more than I've said. In reality, what you see is what's there. I'm shocked that they're so young. So it must've been a pretty bad case, more than you really think. Being a homosexual might be hard, but being bullied/teased/mocked for being homosexual varies on levels just like anything else does. In which case, I made the point that it was probably really bad because 13 year olds dont just go off and kill themselves like the older people do. The older you get, so to speak, the higher the rate is.
 
By 2006 this number had risen to 1.3 per 100,000 for 10-14 year olds. I can't seem to find any 2009 numbers.




I just have a hard time understanding why you don't believe it's possible for a 13 year old to be shattered by constant bullying yet you do believe it's possible that a 13 year old can be influenced into suicide. That baffles me.

I never said that. Read what I wrote above, and combine that with the idea that a 15 year old was once 14, and 13, and 12, and 11, and 10. There's more of a history with an older person. Essentially the older you get, the more battered and bruised you become. So these kids must've taken a pretty hard couple of first hits (if that analogy works for you).
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
The fact is that this kid, in all likelihood, was only mocked/teased/bullied/these terms are all synonymous/etc. for about a year or two.

That's where I disagree with you on the "facts" and have a hard time understanding where the fact even came from. Statistically, does it matter how long someone is bullied before they commit suicide? Are there stats to support this (long term bullying vs. some "catastrophic" event in ones life and comparing the suicide rates)?

most people are not done growing until their junior year or so in high school.

That is news to me. Avg. age to start a menstrual cycle for a girl is 12 and generally a girl is basically mature 2 years after that cycle starts. These days it's increasingly common for girls to start earlier. I thought I was early and now my little cousins are on birth control to regulate their cycles well before they start high school. I asked my doctor about this and she just shrugged and said it is not at all uncommon.
 
That's where I disagree with you on the "facts" and have a hard time understanding where the fact even came from...

If his peers only knew that he was gay when he came out... and that's what we were discussing (him being mocked/bullied for being homosexual)... I highly doubt he came out any time before 11 years old.
 
From the article, says he was picked on for a number of reasons before he came out:

Brown, his family said, was "bullied to death" — picked on for his small size, his religion and because he did not wear designer clothes and shoes. Kids also accused him of being gay, some of them performing mock gay acts on him in his physical education class, his mother and stepfather said.
 
That is news to me. Avg. age to start a menstrual cycle for a girl is 12 and generally a girl is basically mature 2 years after that cycle starts. These days it's increasingly common for girls to start earlier. I thought I was early and now my little cousins are on birth control to regulate their cycles well before they start high school. I asked my doctor about this and she just shrugged and said it is not at all uncommon.

You're talking about a girl my friend. I'm talking about a boy. Girls mature earlier than guys do. And physically speaking, especially, boys are not done maturing until they're around 16 to 18 years old. I was in high school not too long ago (less than a year).

Relevant to the story, however, we're talking about boys. Who dont even start maturing until about 11 to 13 years old.
 
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