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Old 07-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #106
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maybe comment when you know what the local situation is
I have been to New Zealand many times. I pick grapes and work with winemakers as a hobby . I even talk and exchange e-mails with friends there. It is an issue to them that they express to me.

Like friends do..... normally.
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #107
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FAIL

I looked at the science that was not related to the UN first and foremost, but nice try.


Can you send me a link to any of these scientist that believe the more CO2 the better, and who have tested it on a larger scale?


Do you know any of the rich scientists?



I'm not saying ignore politics and economics, I'm just saying do not allow politics and economics to influence what science you believe in.

Politics and to a lesser degree economics is subjective, do not allow the subjective to shape the objective. Some of the most dangerous mistakes in history have happened that way.

Go to Home depot . Buy 2 plants the same size. Cover them with a plastic bowl or something and put c02 in one, don't put it in the other . Label the one with co2 so you don't forget .

A week later tell us which one is bigger . Want to bet which one is?


Yes, I know some very rich scientists . Ever hear of Gel capsules ?
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:01 PM   #108
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Go to Home depot . Buy 2 plants the same size. Cover them with a plastic bowl or something and put c02 in one, don't put it in the other . Label the one with co2 so you don't forget .

A week later tell us which one is bigger . Want to bet which one is?



Yay, I love simpleton science.

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Old 07-06-2010, 04:02 PM   #109
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I have been to New Zealand many times. I pick grapes and work with winemakers as a hobby . I even talk and exchange e-mails with friends there. It is an issue to them that they express to me.

Like friends do..... normally.
it doesn't sound like you're visiting an area that covers much on public transport then.

simple fact is, it's a tax on consumption that's being passed on to consumers. if you don't want to pay it, consume less. as long as it's being paid in to the appropriate areas once it's been taxed (as it correctly is when petrol is taxed), it's good sense.

i find it funny that a conservative government that was elected on the back of reducing income tax is quite happy to reduce it only to jack taxes back up on indirect items. not to mention they're entirely capable of getting away from the ets, but they won't. it's just being done so john keys rich friends don't have to pay as much company tax and income tax.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:05 PM   #110
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Al Gore has a fever.

LOL His third Chakra is acting up again.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:08 PM   #111
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the biggest issue with the green movement, as i see it, is the mainstream attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us"

fact is, something drastic does need to be done. but because of this attitude if you dare to even take a moderate line of thinking you're wishing the planet dead. it's a tactic simpletons flock to - see the bush administration and the war on terror.

it's all just a race for power. if we didn't have idiots leading both sides of the crusade we'd be getting somewhere by now.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:12 PM   #112
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it doesn't sound like you're visiting an area that covers much on public transport then.

simple fact is, it's a tax on consumption that's being passed on to consumers. if you don't want to pay it, consume less. as long as it's being paid in to the appropriate areas once it's been taxed (as it correctly is when petrol is taxed), it's good sense.

i find it funny that a conservative government that was elected on the back of reducing income tax is quite happy to reduce it only to jack taxes back up on indirect items. not to mention they're entirely capable of getting away from the ets, but they won't. it's just being done so john keys rich friends don't have to pay as much company tax and income tax.
Been all over.

The point is, it increases the cost to produce,which they MUST pass it on They do have a price point at which people will not buy he Wine from New Zealand, and go to somewhere else.

so it is the Government shooting themselves in the foot. They do get revenue from the sale of the wines. People, especially in wines, are very price concious right now. Ask France how that all worked out. They almost lost the whole French wine industry

Kill the Vineyards, kill jobs, kill revenue. It rolls down the hill. prove the sceience, great, but they are not even close .
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:14 PM   #113
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Yay, I love simpleton science.

cheap easy way to prove it. schools are doing it everywhere.

Try it. I will bet you which one is bigger and healthier

You pay for dinner at that place in SA that has all the animal heads on the wall. Forget the name. I will have the Lion steak.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:18 PM   #114
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the biggest issue with the green movement, as i see it, is the mainstream attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us"

fact is, something drastic does need to be done. but because of this attitude if you dare to even take a moderate line of thinking you're wishing the planet dead. it's a tactic simpletons flock to - see the bush administration and the war on terror.

it's all just a race for power. if we didn't have idiots leading both sides of the crusade we'd be getting somewhere by now.
Amen to that. Maurice Strong, who wrote this crap of an idea said in 1969, we will be dead in 20 years. I think he was wrong.

The sad part is using the kids to promote this scam. Having your kid come home and say " my school says that we are all going to burn up and die if we dont recycle now "..... well those telling kids that are sick F's.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:23 PM   #115
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cheap easy way to prove it. schools are doing it everywhere.

Try it. I will bet you which one is bigger and healthier
And what if you place lifeforms in the same experiment? What if it's just not a plant but a whole eco-system?

A real doctor would have scoffed at your experiment suggestion.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:27 PM   #116
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Been all over.

The point is, it increases the cost to produce,which they MUST pass it on They do have a price point at which people will not buy he Wine from New Zealand, and go to somewhere else.

so it is the Government shooting themselves in the foot. They do get revenue from the sale of the wines. People, especially in wines, are very price concious right now. Ask France how that all worked out. They almost lost the whole French wine industry

Kill the Vineyards, kill jobs, kill revenue. It rolls down the hill. prove the sceience, great, but they are not even close .
we're now talking about two different scenarios...

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The sad part is using the kids to promote this scam. Having your kid come home and say " my school says that we are all going to burn up and die if we dont recycle now "..... well those telling kids that are sick F's.
there's no denying recycling and reusing products is beneficial. improving fuel efficiency of cars, planes, not being dependent on oil is good. not polluting and having a better environment is great. but i hate the jump that if we don't get these things tomorrow the earth is going to be uninhabitable by friday.

the first politician to say "hey, look. we've got a viable plan to make things better and we aren't going to incite panic about the state of the planet" should be very successful.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:29 PM   #117
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And what if you place lifeforms in the same experiment? What if it's just not a plant but a whole eco-system?

A real doctor would have scoffed at your experiment suggestion.
x2

the problem with co2 isn't the plants, it's everything else in the eco-system. plants love carbon dioxide (well...), but people, birds and other animals....not so much.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:38 PM   #118
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x2

the problem with co2 isn't the plants, it's everything else in the eco-system. plants love carbon dioxide (well...), but people, birds and other animals....not so much.
New Zealand could pay all the money in the world and zilch will be done by CO2. BTW planet earth has had 20 times the CO2 in the past and we are nowhere near it and won't be near it for hundreds of years. Conservatives simply inherited this mess and like all taxes and regulations it's hard politically to remove them once they are in.
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:57 PM   #119
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Not throwing anyone under any bus, I'm just letting you know that there is science outside the UN that has the same findings.
Yes but more details. What have they found out? What is their science? Do they have predictive models that have been more accurate than NASA and East Anglia?

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So you're going to wait until every scientist agrees? Do you know where we would be if we had always done this?
When it comes to trillions of dollars yes. You don't know where we'll be either just like U.S. didn't know in 1969.

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My point, take a look at the scientist you post. Backyard experiments, you seem to post a lot of editorials rather than actual papers, if you really took a step back you would recognise the junk science, it's pretty easy to sight.
It's not just backyard experiments. Plants are being positively affected by it already. (Why are tree rings getting bigger?)

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So all the scientist that have the same findings and living on meager means don't count.
Sure they do. They just need to compete. I mean if the U.N. agrees with them there is no reason not to include them into the reports.

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You really have a way glancing over the obvious. I said those that can't think BEYOND their pocketbooks. Not everyone votes, thinks, or works purely for their own self interest, if we did most of us would be Republicans
To reduce CO2 to past levels it would affect most people's pocketbook in a VERY noticable way.

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Do I look after my own pocketbook? Of course, but it doesn't mean I'm going to allow it to dictate what's right or wrong.
Yes but it's your OPINION of what is right or wrong. In a democracy people want more evidence than "ooooohhh it could be so bad" especially when similar predictions in the past have proven utterly false. People are not just going to take your word for it. The scientists you choose as the ones we should listen to haven't proven their case that's why they are NOWHERE. This includes the top scientists in NASA and in East Anglia.

Before you talk about other people's pocketbooks you should invest in green technology yourself and take the risk instead of telling everyone else to. All that money flooding into those companies will mean more people will invest in them and when they don't find an adequate technology the economy will bust again.

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Where did I say anything about guilt? You've been listening to too much Glenn.
Well when you mention that Republicans are only thinking about their pocketbook and that people shouldn't only think about their pocketbook you obviously are using the guilt argument but according to you it's a planet emergency.

BTW I don't have fox news. I sometimes see some videos here and there but I don't need Glenn Beck for the obvious.

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Do you have any links about these green jobs where people just get paid to do nothing?
Are you dense???!!!!! When we pay taxes it goes to the government bodies and the corporate recipients of this money for being green. Also Wall Street firms will make money collecting fees for trading carbon units. The hope is that these companies will develop great things with this money while people working for cheap energy companies get laid off or bankrupt. While we wait for a panacea technology to appear the unemployment increases. That's really smart in a worldwide recession.
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Old 07-06-2010, 05:21 PM   #120
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When it comes to trillions of dollars yes.
Interesting that you didn't need an absolute consensus on WMDs, very telling

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It's not just backyard experiments. Plants are being positively affected by it already. (Why are tree rings getting bigger?)
But we're not just talking about plants.

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Before you talk about other people's pocketbooks you should invest in green technology yourself and take the risk instead of telling everyone else to. All that money flooding into those companies will mean more people will invest in them and when they don't find an adequate technology the economy will bust again.
I have, and it's already saved me money.


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Well when you mention that Republicans are only thinking about their pocketbook and that people shouldn't only think about their pocketbook you obviously are using the guilt argument but according to you it's a planet emergency.
You should become one of those clowns that make animal balloons at the circus, because you're awesome at twisting things.





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Are you dense???!!!!! When we pay taxes it goes to the government bodies and the corporate recipients of this money for being green. Also Wall Street firms will make money collecting fees for trading carbon units. The hope is that these companies will develop great things with this money while people working for cheap energy companies get laid off or bankrupt. While we wait for a panacea technology to appear the unemployment increases. That's really smart in a worldwide recession.
So the answer is no. So this whole "green jobs where people get paid to do nothing" is just another conservative alinsky type talking point?
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