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Old 07-05-2010, 05:17 PM   #61
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Paying people to do nothing



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Also forcing enormous money on unproven technologies carries the risk that everyone will invest in them and when the bubble bursts (some of these technologies suck) we'll have more people who don't have savings for retirement.
You look silly going on and on about "unproven technologies", especially when you post sources that prove you otherwise.

Do you really want to stop looking for these technologies? You like stagnation?
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:21 PM   #62
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Anyone whose actions completely mirror that of a celebrity they follow day in and day out is an idiot. If you give up on a cause because some of the celebrities involved give up or don't walk the walk, then that's your problem. There's still plenty of people with not a lot of money on them that do whatever they can to support a cause or an issue, and they don't care if they get celebrity endorsements or not. They may not be vocal about it most of the time, lest it come off as preachy or whatever, but they still get involved. The issue itself is still important, it just happened to have some dumb people attached to it because they like the notoriety and attention and like looking as though they care. It's an unfortunate side effect sometimes, sadly.

Angela
The idiots are those that don't have the money to pay for the increased energy prices from these useless regulations (that failed in Europe) and haven't done the due diligence to come to their conclusions. DiCaprio is in a good position precisely because he can buy trees to offset his carbon footprint (whether it can be measured properly or not) and he can buy solar panels and not care if the energy savings pay for the panels. Government workers with Defined Benefit pensions are also in the similar position in that they have a guaranteed annuity that private sector workers can rarely get. Full cap and trade would shrink the middle class and make a more pyramidal society. This is because increased fees and taxes leave middle class folks (and poor ones) with less money left over after they pay for necessities so their standard of living decreases and they will have less money to save for retirement. Rich people that support cap and trade don't care because they have lots of money left over for a high standard of living.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:30 PM   #63
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Yeah that's Al Gore laughing all the way to the bank. Subprime science and subprime loans aren't funny.

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:You look silly going on and on about "unproven technologies", especially when you post sources that prove you otherwise.

Do you really want to stop looking for these technologies? You like stagnation?
Cap and trade will create more stagnation. Investing in research is much cheaper than cap and trade.

You keep going on about my sources. None of them said Solar power can work everywhere. Since they can't work everywhere there is no replacement for fossil fuels so you might as well live in a shack with no heat if you feel impending doom is coming because of CO2 since it's here to stay until a real alternative is found.

At this point solar power is a joke.

Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation - BusinessWeek

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Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation
April 12 (Bloomberg) -- A Spanish trade group called on authorities to investigate possible fraud among solar-power generators after a news report said that some were getting paid for producing power at night.

ASIF wants the “identification, charges and rigorous application of the law” applied to any power producer guilty of such practices, the Madrid-based association for Spain’s photovoltaic-panel industry said today in a statement.

An audit of solar-power generation from November 2009 to January 2010 found that some panel operators were paid for doing the “impossible” -- producing electricity from sunlight during the night, El Mundo reported today, citing a letter from Secretary of State for Energy Pedro Marin.

Officials at Marin’s office in Madrid weren’t immediately available for comment.

“ASIF regrets that, with relative frequency, supposed photovoltaic fraud is leaked to the press -- with harmful consequences for the public image of the sector -- which later don’t translate into any public case that identifies the guilty,” the group said.

Preliminary evidence shows some solar stations may have run diesel-burning generators and sold the output as solar power, which earns several times more than electricity from fossil fuels, El Mundo said, citing unidentified people from the energy industry. The power grid received 4,500 megawatt-hours of power from midnight to 7 a.m. in the months audited, El Mundo said.

--Editors: Stephen Cunningham, Mike Anderson.
Even nuclear power can't eliminate all fossil fuels though it would be interesting if we could more more nuclear power plants and have electric cars plugged in. Again the costs would have to be weighed to see if it's feasible.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:39 PM   #64
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You keep going on about my sources. None of them said Solar power can work everywhere. Since they can't work everywhere there is no replacement for fossil fuels so you might as well live in a shack with no heat if you feel impending doom is coming because of CO2 since it's here to stay until a real alternative is found.
This is limited and outdated thinking. Certain plants and wildlife are sustainable only in certain areas of the earth, why can't we allow ourselves to think more like nauture and allow for sustainability based on region?

Think outside the box, it's the only way we'll move forward.

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At this point solar power is a joke.
So the fact that huge regions of the world can power itself with solar like the source you yourself posted, makes it a joke?
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:44 PM   #65
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This is limited and outdated thinking. Certain plants and wildlife are sustainable only in certain areas of the earth, why can't we allow ourselves to think more like nauture and allow for sustainability based on region?

So the fact that huge regions of the world can power itself with solar like the source you yourself posted, makes it a joke?
I didn't say BAN solar power. The argument of the AGW types is that we need to faze out fossil fuels due to the emergency of a fried planet. Solar power is not reliable enough. I'm sure we could power the world with solar power the only problem is that our standard of living would be that of Africa if we did it. Hence there are many that want Africa to develop their own fossil fuel resources more because cheap energy is required to reduce poverty. If some regions want to use solar they better not sell snake oil and use diesel at night to try and pretend they can do more than they can and the governments that subsidize it better manage their budgets properly so they can actually afford it if making money is not their interest.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:47 PM   #66
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Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?

This is why this issue is so difficult to discuss with you, as soon as it gets a little over your head you turn to conspiracy theories.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:52 PM   #67
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Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?

This is why this issue is so difficult to discuss with you, as soon as it gets a little over your head you turn to conspiracy theories.
It doesn't help when your president is on camera talking about shutting down coal companies and people are conducting solar power fraud. Liberals need to expand their compassion to include taxpayers and the unemployed. Climate Alarmism certainly qualifies for "Wow, some leaps and bounds there, eh?"
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:01 PM   #68
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Where are these shut down coal companies?

There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:04 PM   #69
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I'm just some guy. I'm young, I'm a college student. I don't make money or lose money right now based on how oil does or how Greenpeace does or how new green jobs are created or not. I have no direct connection to anything on this issue.

I'm just a guy who thinks there are very valid concerns about what we're doing to our environment that are being dismissed because the politics has caused portions of environmentalists to go over-the-top. I have not a connection in the world that gives me a reason to be on this side other than my concerns through reading up on the issue. To suggest otherwise is laughable.

Excellent post.

There are concerns. That it is going to be 300 degrees and we pass cap and trade or go poof just isn't one of them.

You have the right idea. Thanks for the post .
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:07 PM   #70
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Where are these shut down coal companies?

There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.
working pretty good too isn't it. Joe Biden I think said Spain has created 43 million jobs from their efforts. ... or was it lost 2 for everyone created.. one of the 2. maybe it was that it cost 43million per job. something in that equation.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:11 PM   #71
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Who knows, since when have facts been your priority. Did Joe say that in Rahm's announcement? :lol;
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:12 PM   #72
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Where are these shut down coal companies?
I posted a video of Obama talking about shutting down coal companies already, to then make way for green energy. He also wanted to give a tax credit for the lost jobs which would hardly replace a lost job. He was only this aggressive because it was a world emergency. Things have changed since Climategate. Cap and trade hasn't passed the senate so hopefully he won't get what he wants. :crosses fingers:

YouTube - Video: Plan Will Bankrupt Coal Industry

Thanks to so called "ultra rightwingers" it's been met with opposition including Democrats.

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There is no "solar power fraud", quit reading the ultra right websites, the power company in Spain was always open about it being a hybrid system.
Charging high solar power rates and using diesel is a fraudulent way to make a profit. If they use diesel they should charge lower diesel rates. Thank god for audits.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #73
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Yeah that's Al Gore laughing all the way to the bank.
Al hasn't been laughing too much lately, with his marriage problems and those ummm 'legal problems' in Oregon recently.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #74
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If someone wants to build a coal power plant they can and it would have to meet the regulations.
That's not exactly "shutting down coal companies".

We've seen where no regulations gets us.
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:29 PM   #75
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Al hasn't been laughing too much lately, with his marriage problems and those ummm 'legal problems' in Oregon recently.
If cap and trade passed he would be. Since it hasn't he isn't.
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