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Old 07-10-2012, 05:58 PM   #46
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I found another bean that looks just like the leader!
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:53 PM   #47
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Jefferson was a Christian. I believe he called himself a Unitarian.
But this is a never ending argument.

The one thing we can say without a good amount of confidence is - whether they were Christian or Deist, they were also secularists.

And there are two extremes that often refuse to acknowledge one of those two things.
I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #48
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I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
I guess I'll go take my rightful place as a second class citizen for daring to not be able to find evidence of a god
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:08 PM   #49
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I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
You must not be very happy with the Republican or Democratic parties at the moment, then.

How does it feel to have your secular government slapping you in the face with "one nation under god" printed on every piece of paper currency you pass through your hands? Every time kids in your state pledge allegiance to "one nation, under god?"

If you support a secular government than you do not support any current form of state or national government in the U.S., where legislative sessions begin with prayer, for fuck's sake.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:36 PM   #50
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You must not be very happy with the Republican or Democratic parties at the moment, then.

How does it feel to have your secular government slapping you in the face with "one nation under god" printed on every piece of paper currency you pass through your hands? Every time kids in your state pledge allegiance to "one nation, under god?"
Actually that's "In God We Trust," the official national motto, on our money. And I'm so offended by that I choose it as my Indiana license plate.

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If you support a secular government than you do not support any current form of state or national government in the U.S., where legislative sessions begin with prayer, for fuck's sake.
Do you think a secular government means one free of any religious influences?
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:11 PM   #51
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Absolutely. Religious influence in government is one of the worst things about our government.

And please don't try and prop up an argument about the law and the Ten Commandments or whatever. Murder is a crime with or without religion.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #52
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This argument reminds me that the Girl Guides here in Oz recently got rid of the "pledge allegiance to God" part of their pledge. Thank goodness. I couldn't think of anything more antiquated than Guides having to pray before a session. In the years I did Scouts I hated being forced to pray and pledge allegiance to a God I didn't believe in.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:20 PM   #53
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I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
How about administered by, and for, ALL people?

Why is that so hard?
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:36 PM   #54
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Do you think a secular government means one free of any religious influences?
I think a secular government means that everyone in it can personally follow any religion they please. They can go to church on their own time, if they want to read their respective religious texts before bed at night, that sort of thing, I don't care.

But they cannot use their religious beliefs to create our laws. Things get really sketchy when that starts happening, for both non-religious AND religious people.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:48 AM   #55
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What does any of this have to do with the star of "Grown Ups 2" sending out some tweet pissed off at the white audiences he has sold out to?
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:03 AM   #56
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Everything is part of the culture war. Everything. Even something like climate change(d). For some people, your position on it is determined not by science but on whether or not you think abortion is murder.

And the "one nation, under god" anti-commie BS was one of the first shots fired.
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:05 AM   #57
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What does any of this have to do with the star of "Grown Ups 2" sending out some tweet pissed off at the white audiences he has sold out to?
Because conversations have a natural flow and if we were forced to stick to the exact topic in every thread, this would be the most rigid and boring forum on the internet. Why does someone have to bring this up in every time?
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:06 AM   #58
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I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
hahahahahaha
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:13 AM   #59
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I believe, as the founders did, in a secular government administered by, and for, a religious people.
Presumably not religious people, but religious people of a certain persuasion.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:14 AM   #60
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What does any of this have to do with the star of "Grown Ups 2" sending out some tweet pissed off at the white audiences he has sold out to?
Because every thread here has to somehow come around to religion? Even something that is a far fetched relation. It is tiresome.

Anyway- I don't know about sold out to white audiences but, tragically, Grown Ups 2 is currently filming in MA. Shaq even has a part in it. I wonder if Adam Sandler is still married to Salma Hayek. Only in Hollywood. It will still be better than the one where he played his twin sister (I sat through that for free) or the one he just had out that was a total bomb (wouldn't even sit through that for free). That's my random far fetched relation.
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