Canadians, let's protest the prorogation of parliament - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-17-2010, 01:16 PM   #1
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Canadians, let's protest the prorogation of parliament

Let's stop this fascistic thug, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his party of rednecks.

How you can get involved:
No Prorogue!
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:35 PM   #2
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As an American who is into Canadian politics (and a Harper supporter); I can get why the first prorogation of the Parliament happened (The mud was flying around like a pigsty and nothing was getting accomplished). This second one however, I don't get. Yes, Vancouver is and should be celebrated as a proud moment in Canadian history, but why must the government literally stop for it? While PM Harper may be using this to "consult Canadians about the economy"; I suggest he take a look at America as how not to do it; Congress has simply turned into a credit card for their own policies.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:59 PM   #3
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As an American who is into Canadian politics (and a Harper supporter); I can get why the first prorogation of the Parliament happened (The mud was flying around like a pigsty and nothing was getting accomplished). This second one however, I don't get. Yes, Vancouver is and should be celebrated as a proud moment in Canadian history, but why must the government literally stop for it? While PM Harper may be using this to "consult Canadians about the economy"; I suggest he take a look at America as how not to do it; Congress has simply turned into a credit card for their own policies.
Yeah, it's just a cheap excuse. He really wanted to avoid a scandal over the Canadian government allowing Afghan detainees to be tortured. The guy is racist against Muslims. His government also left that Sudanese (I think?) Canadian woman to rot in Sudan and it was only her lawyer who got her out. It has also allowed Omar Qadr to rot in Guantanamo Bay (where he was tortured since caught at age 14 or 15) even while the Supreme Court of Canada says it has an obligation to bring him back. Not to mention the crackdown on Muslim/Arab groups criticizing Israel as somehow supporting terrorism, while his government had no trouble lauding Israel's massacre of Gaza.

Harper argued recently that his excuse for silencing parliamentary debate for nearly the rest of the winter was because debate was causing international markets to doubt Canada's stability. The CBC reacted like it was no big deal and open to debate while this was obviously an open admission of fascism. Meanwhile good men like former Liberal Party leader Stephane Dion are bashed for being honest about caring about the environment and not seeming a bully and being a sensitive thinker, so they think they can push him around. I despise the new Liberal leader, Ignatieff, but not as much as Harper.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:08 PM   #4
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I don't get it. How is that fascism?
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:10 PM   #5
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Wow, the more I get into Canadian politics, the more it reminds me of the Americans! I'm surprised Dion hasn't come out with a flawed documentary or is it because no one can really understand him? . Seriously though, as a full blooded American, I have more faith in Canada right now as long as that Jack Layton stays out of power.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:11 PM   #6
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One thing I like about it is that it allows Harper to put in conservative senators who support electing Senators in the future when there's an opportunity to do full Senatorial reform. It bothers me that the U.S. is more democratic than we are. It would also be nice to fully pass tough on crime legislation that the liberal appointed senators are blocking.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:12 PM   #7
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I don't get it. How is that fascism?
Don't you understand? Anything you don't like is fascism.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:13 PM   #8
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Harper will get his comeuppance - his poll numbers are falling quickly (although this may stabilize in light of the government's speedy response to Haiti).
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:22 PM   #9
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Don't you understand? Anything you don't like is fascism.
I don't really agree with that action either, at least judging from my understanding of it. But yeah, I don't get how Harper identified himself as a fascist.

Especially since Canada was socialist, right?


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One thing I like about it is that it allows Harper to put in conservative senators who support electing Senators in the future when there's an opportunity to do full Senatorial reform. It bothers me that the U.S. is more democratic than we are. It would also be nice to fully pass tough on crime legislation that the liberal appointed senators are blocking.
That, however, I see as pretty dangerous. At least if I got it right, that you meant the prorogation allows him to introduce senators into pariament that are more conservative and thus replace more liberal senators. While a conservatice sure might welcome it to see more like-minded senators in parliament, I take issue with exploiting democratic measures like the prorogue in order to form the democratic bodies to your liking, ie. crowding out the other party. That indeed doesn't seem democratic.
But don't shoot me if I got you wrong there.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:08 PM   #10
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I blame lots of this on the nature of Canadian government; that is, there's very little in the way of checks and balances, really, and most of the government mainly functions on the will of whichever party is in power.

Let's get this out of the way: proroguing the House of Commons is legal. The fact that it is legal should give pause as what should be changed from here, and focusing on Harper is really beside the point.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:12 PM   #11
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That, however, I see as pretty dangerous. At least if I got it right, that you meant the prorogation allows him to introduce senators into pariament that are more conservative and thus replace more liberal senators.
The Senate is a whole clusterfuck unto itself, and, really, nothing here is illegal or improper here either. The Senate is wholly appointed by the Prime Minister and always has been. In fact, Harper has proposed making the body elective, which the other more liberal parties oppose (the NDP/BQ wish to abolish it, while the Liberals wish to keep it appointed). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is really about filling vacancies, due to mandatory retirement laws, not "replacing" anyone.

Again, I'm not a fan of Harper unto itself; it's just that this is the nature of Canadian government--lots of appointments that the party in power is allowed to make at will. To complain about it at this juncture, I feel, is partisan-based and less about looking to change the system.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:22 PM   #12
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Yes, I got that it is legal. I'm glad this time around we didn't leave our government such opportunities to form a government according to their liking.
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:52 PM   #13
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The Senate is a whole clusterfuck unto itself, and, really, nothing here is illegal or improper here either. The Senate is wholly appointed by the Prime Minister and always has been. In fact, Harper has proposed making the body elective, which the other more liberal parties oppose (the NDP/BQ wish to abolish it, while the Liberals wish to keep it appointed). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is really about filling vacancies, due to mandatory retirement laws, not "replacing" anyone.

Again, I'm not a fan of Harper unto itself; it's just that this is the nature of Canadian government--lots of appointments that the party in power is allowed to make at will. To complain about it at this juncture, I feel, is partisan-based and less about looking to change the system.
Yeah that pretty much covers it. Harper needs a majority to reform the Senate so stacking the deck in the meantime is the best political option. Also these appointees are supposed to be supporters of 8 year term limits. Of course Harper could have prorogued for a day and still get his Senate appointees. His argument is about communicating with the public about the economy before the budget in March (whether the opposition believes it or not). I'm sure the opposition will stage protests throughout the olympics and bring up the detainee scandal when parliament resumes. Then the scandal will probably go nowhere because Afghanistan is another jurisdiction so I don't know of any NATO countries that can guarantee no torture or any ideas from the opposition on what procedures can be improved.

In Canada senators either retire or are 75 years of age before vacancies appear from what I remember.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:04 PM   #14
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purpleoscar, you're canadian? would never have guessed it. your spelling is entirely american.

are you sure you're canadian?

and muldfeld, you might want to wipe the pre-cum away from your excited rant... i understand declaring your political nemesis as fascist is quite popular these days but it really doesn't hold water with people who, you know, know anything about politics/history.

that said, the canadian PM is a clown. a dangerous, but a not at all fascist clown.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:20 AM   #15
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purpleoscar, you're canadian? would never have guessed it. your spelling is entirely american.

are you sure you're canadian?
I switch back and forth unconsciously. I probably watched too much Seseme Street when I was a kid.
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