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Old 01-17-2010, 12:16 PM   #1
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Canadians, let's protest the prorogation of parliament

Let's stop this fascistic thug, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his party of rednecks.

How you can get involved:
No Prorogue!
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:35 PM   #2
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As an American who is into Canadian politics (and a Harper supporter); I can get why the first prorogation of the Parliament happened (The mud was flying around like a pigsty and nothing was getting accomplished). This second one however, I don't get. Yes, Vancouver is and should be celebrated as a proud moment in Canadian history, but why must the government literally stop for it? While PM Harper may be using this to "consult Canadians about the economy"; I suggest he take a look at America as how not to do it; Congress has simply turned into a credit card for their own policies.
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:59 PM   #3
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As an American who is into Canadian politics (and a Harper supporter); I can get why the first prorogation of the Parliament happened (The mud was flying around like a pigsty and nothing was getting accomplished). This second one however, I don't get. Yes, Vancouver is and should be celebrated as a proud moment in Canadian history, but why must the government literally stop for it? While PM Harper may be using this to "consult Canadians about the economy"; I suggest he take a look at America as how not to do it; Congress has simply turned into a credit card for their own policies.
Yeah, it's just a cheap excuse. He really wanted to avoid a scandal over the Canadian government allowing Afghan detainees to be tortured. The guy is racist against Muslims. His government also left that Sudanese (I think?) Canadian woman to rot in Sudan and it was only her lawyer who got her out. It has also allowed Omar Qadr to rot in Guantanamo Bay (where he was tortured since caught at age 14 or 15) even while the Supreme Court of Canada says it has an obligation to bring him back. Not to mention the crackdown on Muslim/Arab groups criticizing Israel as somehow supporting terrorism, while his government had no trouble lauding Israel's massacre of Gaza.

Harper argued recently that his excuse for silencing parliamentary debate for nearly the rest of the winter was because debate was causing international markets to doubt Canada's stability. The CBC reacted like it was no big deal and open to debate while this was obviously an open admission of fascism. Meanwhile good men like former Liberal Party leader Stephane Dion are bashed for being honest about caring about the environment and not seeming a bully and being a sensitive thinker, so they think they can push him around. I despise the new Liberal leader, Ignatieff, but not as much as Harper.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:08 PM   #4
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I don't get it. How is that fascism?
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:10 PM   #5
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Wow, the more I get into Canadian politics, the more it reminds me of the Americans! I'm surprised Dion hasn't come out with a flawed documentary or is it because no one can really understand him? . Seriously though, as a full blooded American, I have more faith in Canada right now as long as that Jack Layton stays out of power.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:11 PM   #6
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One thing I like about it is that it allows Harper to put in conservative senators who support electing Senators in the future when there's an opportunity to do full Senatorial reform. It bothers me that the U.S. is more democratic than we are. It would also be nice to fully pass tough on crime legislation that the liberal appointed senators are blocking.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:12 PM   #7
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I don't get it. How is that fascism?
Don't you understand? Anything you don't like is fascism.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:13 PM   #8
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Harper will get his comeuppance - his poll numbers are falling quickly (although this may stabilize in light of the government's speedy response to Haiti).
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:22 PM   #9
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Don't you understand? Anything you don't like is fascism.
I don't really agree with that action either, at least judging from my understanding of it. But yeah, I don't get how Harper identified himself as a fascist.

Especially since Canada was socialist, right?


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One thing I like about it is that it allows Harper to put in conservative senators who support electing Senators in the future when there's an opportunity to do full Senatorial reform. It bothers me that the U.S. is more democratic than we are. It would also be nice to fully pass tough on crime legislation that the liberal appointed senators are blocking.
That, however, I see as pretty dangerous. At least if I got it right, that you meant the prorogation allows him to introduce senators into pariament that are more conservative and thus replace more liberal senators. While a conservatice sure might welcome it to see more like-minded senators in parliament, I take issue with exploiting democratic measures like the prorogue in order to form the democratic bodies to your liking, ie. crowding out the other party. That indeed doesn't seem democratic.
But don't shoot me if I got you wrong there.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:08 PM   #10
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I blame lots of this on the nature of Canadian government; that is, there's very little in the way of checks and balances, really, and most of the government mainly functions on the will of whichever party is in power.

Let's get this out of the way: proroguing the House of Commons is legal. The fact that it is legal should give pause as what should be changed from here, and focusing on Harper is really beside the point.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:12 PM   #11
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That, however, I see as pretty dangerous. At least if I got it right, that you meant the prorogation allows him to introduce senators into pariament that are more conservative and thus replace more liberal senators.
The Senate is a whole clusterfuck unto itself, and, really, nothing here is illegal or improper here either. The Senate is wholly appointed by the Prime Minister and always has been. In fact, Harper has proposed making the body elective, which the other more liberal parties oppose (the NDP/BQ wish to abolish it, while the Liberals wish to keep it appointed). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is really about filling vacancies, due to mandatory retirement laws, not "replacing" anyone.

Again, I'm not a fan of Harper unto itself; it's just that this is the nature of Canadian government--lots of appointments that the party in power is allowed to make at will. To complain about it at this juncture, I feel, is partisan-based and less about looking to change the system.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:22 PM   #12
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Yes, I got that it is legal. I'm glad this time around we didn't leave our government such opportunities to form a government according to their liking.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:52 PM   #13
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The Senate is a whole clusterfuck unto itself, and, really, nothing here is illegal or improper here either. The Senate is wholly appointed by the Prime Minister and always has been. In fact, Harper has proposed making the body elective, which the other more liberal parties oppose (the NDP/BQ wish to abolish it, while the Liberals wish to keep it appointed). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is really about filling vacancies, due to mandatory retirement laws, not "replacing" anyone.

Again, I'm not a fan of Harper unto itself; it's just that this is the nature of Canadian government--lots of appointments that the party in power is allowed to make at will. To complain about it at this juncture, I feel, is partisan-based and less about looking to change the system.
Yeah that pretty much covers it. Harper needs a majority to reform the Senate so stacking the deck in the meantime is the best political option. Also these appointees are supposed to be supporters of 8 year term limits. Of course Harper could have prorogued for a day and still get his Senate appointees. His argument is about communicating with the public about the economy before the budget in March (whether the opposition believes it or not). I'm sure the opposition will stage protests throughout the olympics and bring up the detainee scandal when parliament resumes. Then the scandal will probably go nowhere because Afghanistan is another jurisdiction so I don't know of any NATO countries that can guarantee no torture or any ideas from the opposition on what procedures can be improved.

In Canada senators either retire or are 75 years of age before vacancies appear from what I remember.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #14
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purpleoscar, you're canadian? would never have guessed it. your spelling is entirely american.

are you sure you're canadian?

and muldfeld, you might want to wipe the pre-cum away from your excited rant... i understand declaring your political nemesis as fascist is quite popular these days but it really doesn't hold water with people who, you know, know anything about politics/history.

that said, the canadian PM is a clown. a dangerous, but a not at all fascist clown.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:20 AM   #15
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purpleoscar, you're canadian? would never have guessed it. your spelling is entirely american.

are you sure you're canadian?
I switch back and forth unconsciously. I probably watched too much Seseme Street when I was a kid.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:14 PM   #16
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So, did anyone go to the rallies? I went and I'm proud of myself and those who showed up. There will be more in future.

Again, the site is: http://noprorogue.ca/

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I blame lots of this on the nature of Canadian government; that is, there's very little in the way of checks and balances, really, and most of the government mainly functions on the will of whichever party is in power.

Let's get this out of the way: proroguing the House of Commons is legal. The fact that it is legal should give pause as what should be changed from here, and focusing on Harper is really beside the point.
My big brother was telling me that Canadian law includes customs. Harper is violating customs by proroguing parliament for a second time for such explicitly self-interested reasons. He was also telling me that the Governor General shouldn't have granted prorogation to a minority government, but should have gotten the permission to the other parties -- or enough to get the permission of a majority of seats.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:16 PM   #17
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muldfeld, you might want to wipe the pre-cum away from your excited rant... i understand declaring your political nemesis as fascist is quite popular these days but it really doesn't hold water with people who, you know, know anything about politics/history.

that said, the canadian PM is a clown. a dangerous, but a not at all fascist clown.
First, just because a system of government allows certain behavior doesn't mean it's not fascistic. Iran reserves the right for the Ayatollah to review candidates and to limit the selection, but his behavior has still been fascistic.

I think we all have fascistic tendencies within us -- to try to do whatever we can to overcome opposition and get our way -- but he and Bush really step over the line and pursue unprecedented levels of dictatorial behavior for their societies. Our societies are stronger than pre-Nazi Germany, yet, in looking back historically and evaluating our present, we tend to have a hypocritical standard; we criticize those Germans or whomever who failed to stand up to the rise of fascism or mistreatment of others, while failing to do our part. Harper has an authoritarian style of leadership; none in his party are able to challenge his decisions and he conducts himself in such a way in public to minimize the chance of questions outside of his expectations, as we saw in fall 2008 -- much like Bush. This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.

Harper most recently defended prorogation as a means of silencing parliamentary debate to please international markets which would only invest in Canada if it looked stable; in his view, democratic participation was the enemy of profit, so this justified closing parliament. And the CBC just treated it like it was no biggie.

Harper has moved Canada to the right in backing Israel, including that disgusting behavior in massacring Gaza and continuing the blockade. He prorogued parliament once before for selfish political survival, while the media (including the CBC) helped him -- first by bashing Stephane Dion and then by complaining about a coalition government and having to go to the polls again. He pursues the most cliche right wing, racist policies -- toward the Muslim world and those criticizing the tyranny of states to dealing with crime and minorities at home.

He fired the woman who prohibited the manufacturing of medical isotopes when she was prioritizing the safety of the nuclear reactor. This means future directors are going to side with politics over safety.

His government also left that Sudanese (I think?) Canadian woman to rot in Sudan and it was only her lawyer who got her out. It has also allowed Omar Qadr to rot in Guantanamo Bay (where he was tortured since caught at age 14 or 15) even while the Supreme Court of Canada says it has an obligation to bring him back.

He is also fully backed by Canada's corporate interests. I find it surprising that yahoo.ca has a poll on every silly celebrity matter and yet never asked Canadians how they feel about the prorogation; instead, they asked if Canadians want another election. I know these yahoo polls are of little consequence, but it's illustrative of how private Canadian media is decidedly right wing. And, since CTV and Rogers seem to control everything, practically, it's easier for right wing bias to affect how Canadians think.

Much Music and its subsidiaries (now owned by CTV) is so heavily commercial and seems intent on dumbing Canadian minds to such a degree that I think it's actually damaging to our society, especially in outlying areas like small town Newfoundland, which rely on it so heavily for cultural influence because there's little else to do.

Even signal substitution is more widespread, which means that Canadians trying to watch American TV shows on American channels not only get bombarded by Canadian ads to help the economy supposedly, but they are able to be brainwashed much more easily by Conservative Party attack ads -- which has a political bias that the CRTC is refusing to acknowledge.

Look, I don't know much about Canadian politics, but I don't like what I see.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:14 AM   #18
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i couldn't get passed all the american spellings in your post, muldfield, sorry.

are my fellow canadians completely incapable of writing words correctly? is it too much to ask?

here, why don't you print out this little handy-guide for future reference:

centre
theatre
endeavour
behaviour
favourite
favour
savour
flavour
neighbour
fibre
sombre
defence
offence

look, seriously muldfield, it's nice that you're angry and that you want to do stuff. but your last sentence damns everything you just said as nothing more than biased opinion.

the way you fling vague generalities makes me cringe. muldfield, i'm not sure you're aware of this but ALL politicians in EVERY country are controlled by big business in varying degrees. you think this is new or unique?

and the fact that you said the cbc are in harper's corner... give me a fucking break. are you serious? are you really... really serious?

just like the bbc are in the BNP's corner, as well. oh yes.

i've started to think the public at large should be excluded from having any say in government affairs. a quick look at almost any message board whether it's here or on news websites quickly reinforces that sentiment.

bring back the all-powerful monarchy.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:37 AM   #19
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but his behavior has still been fascistic.

I think we all have fascistic tendencies within us -- to try to do whatever we can to overcome opposition and get our way -- but he and Bush really step over the line and pursue unprecedented levels of dictatorial behavior for their societies. Our societies are stronger than pre-Nazi Germany, yet, in looking back historically and evaluating our present, we tend to have a hypocritical standard; we criticize those Germans or whomever who failed to stand up to the rise of fascism or mistreatment of others, while failing to do our part. Harper has an authoritarian style of leadership; none in his party are able to challenge his decisions and he conducts himself in such a way in public to minimize the chance of questions outside of his expectations, as we saw in fall 2008 -- much like Bush. This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.
Trying to cease power from the opposition is not a characteristic feature unique to fascism. You might disagree with the way he is conducting his politics, but to call him, or Bush, fascist for that is disingenious and harms your arguments more that it helps. It's pretty much as silly as calling Sweden socialist for having high taxes and an encompassing social welfare system.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:12 AM   #20
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This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.
Yes, but in the American mainstream media, with the exception of Fox News, these questions are softballs, mostly dealing with the dog and/or family and anyone who attempts to question the administration on any level is seen in the eyes of the Homeland Security chief as a terrorist or a radical. Fox News is currently doing what journalism should be doing; keeping those in power in check.
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