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Old 01-23-2010, 07:14 PM   #16
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So, did anyone go to the rallies? I went and I'm proud of myself and those who showed up. There will be more in future.

Again, the site is: http://noprorogue.ca/

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Originally Posted by melon View Post
I blame lots of this on the nature of Canadian government; that is, there's very little in the way of checks and balances, really, and most of the government mainly functions on the will of whichever party is in power.

Let's get this out of the way: proroguing the House of Commons is legal. The fact that it is legal should give pause as what should be changed from here, and focusing on Harper is really beside the point.
My big brother was telling me that Canadian law includes customs. Harper is violating customs by proroguing parliament for a second time for such explicitly self-interested reasons. He was also telling me that the Governor General shouldn't have granted prorogation to a minority government, but should have gotten the permission to the other parties -- or enough to get the permission of a majority of seats.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post
muldfeld, you might want to wipe the pre-cum away from your excited rant... i understand declaring your political nemesis as fascist is quite popular these days but it really doesn't hold water with people who, you know, know anything about politics/history.

that said, the canadian PM is a clown. a dangerous, but a not at all fascist clown.
First, just because a system of government allows certain behavior doesn't mean it's not fascistic. Iran reserves the right for the Ayatollah to review candidates and to limit the selection, but his behavior has still been fascistic.

I think we all have fascistic tendencies within us -- to try to do whatever we can to overcome opposition and get our way -- but he and Bush really step over the line and pursue unprecedented levels of dictatorial behavior for their societies. Our societies are stronger than pre-Nazi Germany, yet, in looking back historically and evaluating our present, we tend to have a hypocritical standard; we criticize those Germans or whomever who failed to stand up to the rise of fascism or mistreatment of others, while failing to do our part. Harper has an authoritarian style of leadership; none in his party are able to challenge his decisions and he conducts himself in such a way in public to minimize the chance of questions outside of his expectations, as we saw in fall 2008 -- much like Bush. This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.

Harper most recently defended prorogation as a means of silencing parliamentary debate to please international markets which would only invest in Canada if it looked stable; in his view, democratic participation was the enemy of profit, so this justified closing parliament. And the CBC just treated it like it was no biggie.

Harper has moved Canada to the right in backing Israel, including that disgusting behavior in massacring Gaza and continuing the blockade. He prorogued parliament once before for selfish political survival, while the media (including the CBC) helped him -- first by bashing Stephane Dion and then by complaining about a coalition government and having to go to the polls again. He pursues the most cliche right wing, racist policies -- toward the Muslim world and those criticizing the tyranny of states to dealing with crime and minorities at home.

He fired the woman who prohibited the manufacturing of medical isotopes when she was prioritizing the safety of the nuclear reactor. This means future directors are going to side with politics over safety.

His government also left that Sudanese (I think?) Canadian woman to rot in Sudan and it was only her lawyer who got her out. It has also allowed Omar Qadr to rot in Guantanamo Bay (where he was tortured since caught at age 14 or 15) even while the Supreme Court of Canada says it has an obligation to bring him back.

He is also fully backed by Canada's corporate interests. I find it surprising that yahoo.ca has a poll on every silly celebrity matter and yet never asked Canadians how they feel about the prorogation; instead, they asked if Canadians want another election. I know these yahoo polls are of little consequence, but it's illustrative of how private Canadian media is decidedly right wing. And, since CTV and Rogers seem to control everything, practically, it's easier for right wing bias to affect how Canadians think.

Much Music and its subsidiaries (now owned by CTV) is so heavily commercial and seems intent on dumbing Canadian minds to such a degree that I think it's actually damaging to our society, especially in outlying areas like small town Newfoundland, which rely on it so heavily for cultural influence because there's little else to do.

Even signal substitution is more widespread, which means that Canadians trying to watch American TV shows on American channels not only get bombarded by Canadian ads to help the economy supposedly, but they are able to be brainwashed much more easily by Conservative Party attack ads -- which has a political bias that the CRTC is refusing to acknowledge.

Look, I don't know much about Canadian politics, but I don't like what I see.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:14 AM   #18
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i couldn't get passed all the american spellings in your post, muldfield, sorry.

are my fellow canadians completely incapable of writing words correctly? is it too much to ask?

here, why don't you print out this little handy-guide for future reference:

centre
theatre
endeavour
behaviour
favourite
favour
savour
flavour
neighbour
fibre
sombre
defence
offence

look, seriously muldfield, it's nice that you're angry and that you want to do stuff. but your last sentence damns everything you just said as nothing more than biased opinion.

the way you fling vague generalities makes me cringe. muldfield, i'm not sure you're aware of this but ALL politicians in EVERY country are controlled by big business in varying degrees. you think this is new or unique?

and the fact that you said the cbc are in harper's corner... give me a fucking break. are you serious? are you really... really serious?

just like the bbc are in the BNP's corner, as well. oh yes.

i've started to think the public at large should be excluded from having any say in government affairs. a quick look at almost any message board whether it's here or on news websites quickly reinforces that sentiment.

bring back the all-powerful monarchy.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Muldfeld View Post
but his behavior has still been fascistic.

I think we all have fascistic tendencies within us -- to try to do whatever we can to overcome opposition and get our way -- but he and Bush really step over the line and pursue unprecedented levels of dictatorial behavior for their societies. Our societies are stronger than pre-Nazi Germany, yet, in looking back historically and evaluating our present, we tend to have a hypocritical standard; we criticize those Germans or whomever who failed to stand up to the rise of fascism or mistreatment of others, while failing to do our part. Harper has an authoritarian style of leadership; none in his party are able to challenge his decisions and he conducts himself in such a way in public to minimize the chance of questions outside of his expectations, as we saw in fall 2008 -- much like Bush. This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.
Trying to cease power from the opposition is not a characteristic feature unique to fascism. You might disagree with the way he is conducting his politics, but to call him, or Bush, fascist for that is disingenious and harms your arguments more that it helps. It's pretty much as silly as calling Sweden socialist for having high taxes and an encompassing social welfare system.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:12 PM   #20
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This in stark contrast to how Barack Obama conducts himself in being open to all kinds of questions from the public.
Yes, but in the American mainstream media, with the exception of Fox News, these questions are softballs, mostly dealing with the dog and/or family and anyone who attempts to question the administration on any level is seen in the eyes of the Homeland Security chief as a terrorist or a radical. Fox News is currently doing what journalism should be doing; keeping those in power in check.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #21
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yes, thank the stars for fox news. wherever would we be without them.

people, remember that bit i said about my idea that the public should be barred from having any say in government? i give you exhibit a.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Trying to cease power from the opposition is not a characteristic feature unique to fascism. You might disagree with the way he is conducting his politics, but to call him, or Bush, fascist for that is disingenious and harms your arguments more that it helps. It's pretty much as silly as calling Sweden socialist for having high taxes and an encompassing social welfare system.
yes, exactly.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:44 PM   #23
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Fox News is currently doing what journalism should be doing; keeping those in power in check.
Classic
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Zoomerang96 View Post
are my fellow canadians completely incapable of writing words correctly? is it too much to ask?
You should be pleased to know that it's my policy to write in "Canadian English" when physically present in Canada and "American English" when in the U.S.

Interestingly enough, I can generally tell when I need to adjust my spellings, but I don't always know off-hand as to how they should be spelled. Like "centre"-"centring"; I figured "centering" wasn't correct, but "centring" wasn't entirely obvious at first glance until I looked it up.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:29 PM   #25
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melon, you're exempt.

my beef is with canadians who should know better. america had a revolution back in the day and they won, so my thinking is they can spell however they want. canadians, for all their talk of being distinct from americans sure don't appear that way when they write the same as their southern neighbours.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:10 PM   #26
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YouTube - Rick Mercer: PROROGUEVACATIONS.COM

YouTube - Rick Mercer: Rick's Rant: Tories Plunge in Polls
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:32 PM   #27
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I'm thinking of composing all my future posts in Chaucer English. If I can be bothered.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Trying to cease power from the opposition is not a characteristic feature unique to fascism. You might disagree with the way he is conducting his politics, but to call him, or Bush, fascist for that is disingenious and harms your arguments more that it helps. It's pretty much as silly as calling Sweden socialist for having high taxes and an encompassing social welfare system.
I don't think so. Sweden is socialist; it doesn't mean it's communist, but it's definitely socialist.

Fascism is an ideology. It's a complete disregard for principles and a pursuit of trying to get whatever you want at all costs and without regard to how future leaderships should behave if that present fascist leader were a citizen.

Eisenhower showed considerable restraint in backing the desegregation of schools, even if he disagreed with it.

We all have fascistic tendencies and democracies engage in this behavior usually under extreme conditions of desperation.

Harper's entire way of operating is generally fascistic. He centers power around himself and allows very little party debate. He prevents questions from the media when he doesn't feel like it.

He and Bush have violated the rights of their citizens and allowed torture. Harper is in no way threatened by Omar Kadr, but chooses to violate Canadian law that he be protected and at least be transferred from Guantanamo.

I think you're wrong to imply that fascism can only be called that in the worst cases of Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy. The road to those societies were paved with gradual violations of people's rights and a hypocritical abuse of power. Harper is a fascist and just because he hasn't sent in gangs to beat up those who criticize the regime, like Putin, doesn't mean he isn't. The society won't allow it, but he keeps pushing and shows a depraved willingness to say things like parliament shouldn't meet because it could cause market instability. These are not the actions of a democracy-loving leader. Even Hitler invoked what the people supposedly wanted to pursue his agenda.

Harper is engaged in a consistently anti-Muslim campaign. You might not care because you're unaffected, but even Nazi Germany left certain people alone.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:24 PM   #29
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Yes, but in the American mainstream media, with the exception of Fox News, these questions are softballs, mostly dealing with the dog and/or family and anyone who attempts to question the administration on any level is seen in the eyes of the Homeland Security chief as a terrorist or a radical. Fox News is currently doing what journalism should be doing; keeping those in power in check.
No, Fox News isn't keeping Obama in check. It espouses a fascistic ideology. There are no consistent principles that guide its coverage. It's extremely irresponsible coverage that doesn't resemble reality at all. Just because they opposed Obama's fascistic tendencies, doesn't mean their fascistic tendencies would be allied.

I agree that Obama should open himself up more, but I was contrasting that to Bush. I'd cite Bill Moyers as someone who generally engages in responsible journalism by criticizing Obama from a consistent set of principles. Perhaps, the New York Times, too.

However, much of the mainstream press is highly nationalistic and pro-Zionist, so it would be hard for Obama to make real progress on the Palestinian/Israeli peace initiative, if he wanted.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:42 PM   #30
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One thing I like about it is that it allows Harper to put in conservative senators who support electing Senators in the future when there's an opportunity to do full Senatorial reform. It bothers me that the U.S. is more democratic than we are. It would also be nice to fully pass tough on crime legislation that the liberal appointed senators are blocking.
This is just the kind of unoriginal thinking I despise about Harper. Getting tough on crime won't resolve it. You have to deal with the environmental factors and long-term causes. Getting tough on some kid who hasn't had any love or guidance will just make our country more like America -- with an underclass for which we refuse to take responsibility.

Harper loves to criticize Muslims engaging in "terrorism," but has no trouble killing and torturing them in Afghanistan and helping Israel to do so. He's just as much a murderer. At least Obama was under pressure by the pro-Israeli lobby. Harper is trying to cultivate that kind of pro-Israeli sentiment. It's disgusting.

And it seems odd to me for you to want more democracy in the Senate and yet not give a damn about a minority government proroguing parliament.
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