Canadian politics maybe getting interesting!

[anitram]

At this point they are doing it because they no longer believe that Harper is amenable to working with anybody. Given that he's acting like King Stephen instead of a minority PM, I don't blame them.

Look, I don't necessarily think this is a great idea - in fact, it'll probably be a gong show. But the Conservatives have only themselves to blame - actually Harper specifically. There are reports that several Conservative MPs and Cabinet members begged him not to put the public funding provision in and he ignored them. If you watched the Q&A period today, you'll see that a couple of very prominent cabinet members, including the Minister of Justice (Nicholson) did not stand up and clap for Harper. So I think the party at this point realizes that he spent 2 years antagonizing and bullying the opposition and finally crossed the line.

Regardless of what happens, the Harper government won't last very long. I thought they'd have 2 years but clearly that's far too long. This level of ineptitude has been stunning.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Yes, I saw that - Stockwell Day didn't stand up either.

They showed Harper looking a bit shattered while the opposition yelled "leader, leader" when Prentice stood up during Parliament today.

 

[anitram]

It's really surprising because no matter what I thought of him, I always had respect for his political savvy and general intelligence. But the hubris here was just incredible and he really, really overreached.

This makes Joe Clark's miscalculation look like small potatoes.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Karma's a bitch.

CTV reported Harper told some Conservatives tonight that he will use all "legal means possible" to prevent the coalition taking over.
I wouldn't put it past the control freak to prorogue Parliament.

 

[BoMac]

.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper:

The opposition has every right to defeat the government but Stéphane Dion does not have the right to take power without an election.
- Prime Minister Stephen Harper gives the nation a lesson in parliamentary democracy from the foyer of the House of Commons (November 28, 2008)




Leader of the Opposition Stephen Harper:

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.
- From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper
(September 9, 2004)

--------------------------------------------------------

We’ll support the government on issues if it’s essential to the country but our primary responsibility is not to prop up the government, our responsibility is to provide an opposition and an alternative government for Parliament and for Canadians. What the government has to do, if it wants to govern for any length of time, is it must appeal primarily to the third parties in the House of Commons to get them to support it.
- Stephen Harper


Well there are lots of things that could bring the government down, but my opposition can not bring the government down. The government can only be brought down because it alienates several parties in the House. And the first obligation in this Parliament, if the government wants to govern, it has to come to Parliament and it has to show that it can get the support of the majority of members.
- Stephen Harper


"When a government starts trying to cancel dissent or avoid dissent is frankly when it’s rapidly losing its moral authority to govern."
- Stephen Harper


We’ll see. We’ll see - time will tell - but there does seem to be an attitude that they can govern as if they have a majority. And as I’ve told you I think Joe Clark taught us I think that’s the wrong attitude to have in a minority Parliament.
- Stephen Harper

 

[Zoomerang96]

To think that in time of fiscal crisis, with the Liberals having the most useless leader in decades who is, by the way, despised in Quebec, with the Bloc considerably underperforming and with Layton basically stuck in mud and unable to attain more seats election after election and a totally feckless Green Party led by a woman so dumb that she decided to run in McKay's riding, the Canadian people STILL did not want to give Harper a mandate to govern.

this is what's so hilarious to me.

i can't wait to see harper out. what a wanker. i swear the man would make putin look like father christmas if he had a chance to rule a place like russia instead of canada.

it's not like i hate the conservatives, either. there are many in the party who aren't from the reform party that'd perhaps do some good things for the country.

but stephen harper... gross. makes my blood boil.

 

[purpleoscar]

CTV.ca | NDP, Bloc in coalition talks before fiscal update: tape

The plan for the coalition existed before the fiscal update.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I don't like Harper... I find him bland an ineffectual and I do not agree with much on the Conservative platform.

I find the idea of the Liberals, NDP and Bloc joining together an interesting concept...

But, the problem I'm having is that we are currently in a time of global financial upheaval and recession. We kind of need strong leadership at this point and while I am in no way saying Harper is capable of this I'm not sure how comfortable I am with three parties trying to share power at this particular moment...

There just seems like there is a lot that can go wrong with this situation and I can’t see the Stock Markets responding favorably to this either…

 

[VintagePunk]

CTV.ca | NDP, Bloc in coalition talks before fiscal update: tape

The plan for the coalition existed before the fiscal update.

So?

Did you not read BoMac's post? Harper essentially did the same thing in '04. Except now, he's crying victim.

Leader of the Opposition Stephen Harper:

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.
- From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper
(September 9, 2004)

 

[Slipstream]

For our American friends or others around the world that are reading this. If you find it shocking and unbelievable join the club.


At this time in economic uncertainty, where Canada is predicted to lead the G-7 in economic properity, this power grab by the latest election losers is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned. Only once in Canadian history(1917 during the war) did this happen. You don't have to like Harper(I don't like most of his principles), but his Conservative Party was voted in by the "Canadian people" two months ago, though only 12 seats short of a majority. They still have a mandate to govern by the people.

The opposition Liberals, who had their biggest loss ever in history, failed miserably. Their leader Stephane Dion, who just recently announced he will step down through failure and pressure from the Party in May, isn't even liked by many in his own party, let alone many Canadians. Yet, this Liberal Party amazingly now want him to lead not only his party but this country of Canada. They just lost huge in the election crying out loud with him at the helm!!


The Opposition to the "elected" gov't, comprising the Liberals with the New Democratic Party, who are Canada's third party and don't win anything but a handful of seats, still won't have a majority to govern Canada. They still need help from another party to achieve this. Guess who they've signed a deal with?..........

That's right, the separatist party of Canada, the Bloc Quebecois. That's right. These two Opposition parties need help to govern the Dominion of Canada from the only party that wants to break up Canada. Contradiction to new levels in the history of any modern Western gov't in the world. Most would call this treason.

Global economic mess where Canada had hoped to sway through it, and the whole thing now rides on failed Liberal leader Dion, who's unpopular Canada-wide, the party that a majority of Canadians have never had faith in to lead - the NDP, and the separatist Canada destroyers, the Bloc Quebecois. Bloody rich that is.

 

[anitram]

There just seems like there is a lot that can go wrong with this situation and I can’t see the Stock Markets responding favorably to this either…

I don't think our political systems should be beholden to the stock market which is behaving erratically anyway.

 

[anitram]

Most would call this treason.

Only if "most" are completely ignorant of our constitution and how the parliamentary system works.

This "treason" and "coup d'etat" silliness is simply outrageous. If you find yourself uttering such things, pick up a constitutional textbook before embarrassing yourself further.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I don't think our political systems should be beholden to the stock market which is behaving erratically anyway.

neither do I but it's a reality of modern politics nowadays.

 

[BoMac]

Personally, I think things started going downhill when Elfa adopted that sig. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

are you saying you have no confidence in my signature??

 

[VintagePunk]

are you saying you have no confidence in my signature??

Well, BoMac, myself and a few others have had some recent discussions...

 

[BoMac]

are you saying you have no confidence in my signature??

What I'm saying is that my signature wants to have your signature for lunch. And it doesn't need to gather a coalition in order to do that.

 

[BoMac]

Well, BoMac, myself and a few others have had some recent discussions...

Shall we go see Commissioner Buttman, then?

 

[Slipstream]

Only if "most" are completely ignorant of our constitution and how the parliamentary system works.

This "treason" and "coup d'etat" silliness is simply outrageous. If you find yourself uttering such things, pick up a constitutional textbook before embarrassing yourself further.

Obviously an exaggeration on my part using the word treason. I know the Canadian definition thank you. "Most" was meant for people from other countries that might easily see the situation of a political party in a particular country wanting to break-up that country, as being of disservice, disloyal, and unpatriotic to the nation.

In this current situation, or ever, I find being in cahoots(and yes the Cons have done as much in the past but not to the degree as what's happening now) with the one Party that wants to dismantle the country of Canada really isn't to becoming of being "Canadian" is it? The Bloc Quebecois will have a personal hand in shaping government agenda. How on Earth is that beneficial to Canada?



But for you to connect myself to being unread on Canada's constitutional monarchy system is not very nice of you and not very debate friendly.

BTW....I never said I'm a Conservative or a Harper supporter. I just don't agree with this Coaltion gov't being flogged to us. Many other people I've talked to in Vancouver, who are not Conservative, feel the same.

 

[VintagePunk]

Shall we go see Commissioner Buttman, then?

It's time.

 

[purpleoscar]

So?

Did you not read BoMac's post? Harper essentially did the same thing in '04. Except now, he's crying victim.

So? Everybody is attacking Harper for bad political moves. Doesn't anybody care about bad policies? It's almost like treating political parties like sports.

Do we need a massive fiscal stimulus? I would love to see a political party actually pay off the stimulus when the economy recovers. If Dion or NDP start doing Green Shit the public will outcry. They better not move the country to the left or our standing in the G20 won't be as high anymore.

 

[BoMac]

Obviously an exaggeration on my part using the word treason. I know the Canadian definition thank you. "Most" was meant for people from other countries that might easily see the situation of a political party in a particular country wanting to break-up that country, as being of disservice, disloyal, and unpatriotic to the nation.

In this current situation, or ever, I find being in cahoots(and yes the Cons have done as much in the past but not to the degree as what's happening now) with the one Party that wants to dismantle the country of Canada really isn't to becoming of being "Canadian" is it? The Bloc Quebecois will have a personal hand in shaping government agenda. How on Earth is that beneficial to Canada?

Actually, and I do not in any way want to be perceived as defending the Bloc, but in my travels outside the country, "most" people that I have spoken to have expressed admiration that we as a country are able to have such a party in Parliament, and that we are able to determine the future of the country with words and votes rather than bombs and guns. To them it's a sign of the health of our ideals and democracy, and I, for one, am damn proud to live in a country that allows this.

And secondly, I view the current incarnation of the Bloc as being closer to the old Reform/Canadian Alliance party than a separatist faction. Sure, they talk about separatism on the surface, but that's simply to appease some folks back home. They're actually a party that defends Quebec interests in the same vein of the Reformers who espoused their "West wants in" philosophy.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

It's time.

THIS IS UNDEMOCRATIC!!!

I'm dissolving FYM!!

 

[BoMac]

So? Everybody is attacking Harper for bad political moves. Doesn't anybody care about bad policies? It's almost like treating political parties like sports.

Do we need a massive fiscal stimulus? I would love to see a political party actually pay off the stimulus when the economy recovers. If Dion or NDP start doing Green Shit the public will outcry. They better not move the country to the left or our standing in the G20 won't be as high anymore.

With 62% percent of the electorate voting for a centre-left party (the Liberals are more centrist than outright leftists), I would hardly describe any future shift as moving to the left. That would imply that Canada is a right-leaning country, which it most assuredly is not and may never be.

 

[VintagePunk]

So? Everybody is attacking Harper for bad political moves. Doesn't anybody care about bad policies? It's almost like treating political parties like sports.

Do we need a massive fiscal stimulus? I would love to see a political party actually pay off the stimulus when the economy recovers. If Dion or NDP start doing Green Shit the public will outcry. They better not move the country to the left or our standing in the G20 won't be as high anymore.

Just because you're in the bastion of Conservatism doesn't mean that much of the rest of the country isn't left. I'm not sure how old you are or how long you've lived here (you've mentioned your father is an immigrant, I'm not sure if you are too?) but this country has been mainly left for a long time, and will continue to be. Further, the economics you preach, and the sources you trot out on a regular basis are not the definitive answer to the entire profession, no matter how much you may like to pretend they are. People should save? Yeah, that's common sense. But beyond that, you're guessing, like a lot of other people. It's laughable that you think you have all the answers to the economic problems currently facing most nations in the world. You're offering opinions, and nothing more.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Many other people I've talked to in Vancouver, who are not Conservative, feel the same.

Same here and Toronto is a bastion of Liberal strength!

 

[love_u2_adam]

I signed the petition.
In no way am i letting my future be fucked up by some moronic easterners who only care about their own selves. I am going into the oil industry, I am albertan and i am proud of it.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

I'm from out West and all I have to say is

 

[purpleoscar]

I'm from out West and all I have to say is

I don't know why you're waving unless you like the government spending your money. At least in Alberta they try and let us keep more of what we make.

 

[anitram]

The Bloc Quebecois will have a personal hand in shaping government agenda. How on Earth is that beneficial to Canada?

The reality of the matter is that the Bloc did not even campaign on a sovereignty plank and have essentially abandoned the issue, at least temporarily. They are not the same party as the PQ, whose position is still far more unyielding. They're essentially a very left Francophone party, which is something nobody wants to say, but nonetheless true.

Interesting that Harper was unafraid of the "sovereigntists" back in 2004 when they were actually running on a platform of sovereignty but now that they've abandoned it, it's become unacceptable to ally with them.