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Old 11-29-2008, 04:17 PM   #46
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And the Tories have officially dropped the funding cut. I said right at the outset that Harper would change his mind before Monday and here you go. Now he looks dumb and weak at the same time.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:39 PM   #47
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And the Tories have officially dropped the funding cut. I said right at the outset that Harper would change his mind before Monday and here you go. Now he looks dumb and weak at the same time.
Yeah that's a mistake. He should have cut the funding.

It would improve democracy to have all parties tailor their policies to attract campaign financing instead of taking it from the taxpayer. Conservatives don't want to lose their jobs over campaign financing. The Bloc and NDP would have to raise more money for advertising in future elections or change their platforms.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:41 PM   #48
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I have nothing to say, except I've enjoyed reading this thread, for the most part. As a Canadian permanent resident, I can't vote anyway.
Yeah this thread was more fun than most. It's what happens when there's a minority government. Elections at least every 2 years if not sooner.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:18 PM   #49
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But according to the Globe & Mail, despite Harper's reversal, looks like negotiations between the NDP and Liberals may be too far ahead to turn back now:

globeandmail.com: Tories reverse decision on political subsidies

I'm torn - I"d love to see the PM removed but I kind of hope the opposition gives up now that Harper's relented on the issue that really mattered to them (despite them paying lip service to the economy in general) ; last thing we need during this crisis is more political instability and less confidence in our market.

And Melon, just because you can't vote doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:23 PM   #50
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I think the problem is that now everyone in the opposition has concluded that Harper thinks he is going to rule like King Bush down south, with absolute disregard to compromise. Apparently he believes that getting 37% of the vote gives him a mandate to do whatever he pleases. Somewhere in there he forgot that we were a parliamentary democracy.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:32 PM   #51
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Good I want the left to over reach.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:14 PM   #52
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Political schadenfreude.

We can't have that, now- can we?!??!?












If it happens, VP, you PM me, and we'll set a intercountry toast- you with the imbiable of your choice, and me with *Sparkling Apple Cider*

ALtho if you have a toast with me on Jan 21, or 22nd < depends on schedual> ( cause I'll BE in DC on the 1/20th - my sib is taking me to the swearing in! So I won't be around near a 'puter at that point., nor be carrying around stuff like that in the crowd )
I might have the *SpAC*, and buy the smallest, nicest champange mini-I can afford and add it to the SpAC take 3 sips, and then give the rest to someone else!
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Old 12-01-2008, 10:07 AM   #53
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Really good, balanced article from the Globe & Mail today:

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Public confidence that Stephen Harper can be anything other than a default leader has been badly shaken by the events of the past few days. Not only by the partisanship and cynicism in last week's economic update, but by the Prime Minister's shocking statement last Friday, in which he essentially set the stage for a constitutional crisis by denouncing the idea of an opposition coalition replacing his government as something akin to a coup d'état. It might not be politically palatable, but within the conventions of Parliament it does fall.

Mr. Harper has poisoned the well for this Parliament, and has contributed to the political destabilization of Canada during a great economic crisis. He's proven himself a party leader, and not a very able one at that, at a time when the country needs a national leader.

There are always opportunities for Mr. Harper to redeem himself by acting in the greater interest of the nation, but his total inattention at this point makes it doubtful he can overcome his reputation as a small-minded hyper-partisan. His government has correctly withdrawn its proposed cuts to public funding for political parties, a reform that may have merit but was completely inappropriate at this time. Other climb-downs appear to be following. But any retreat should be viewed as tactical and not principled.


That does not mean, however, that the interests of Canada during tumultuous times would be best served by a Liberal-NDP coalition, propped up by separatists. Such an unwieldy group would, at the least, need a very strong hand at the helm. The Liberals are presently in no position to provide one. They should be focused not on cobbling together an unholy alliance with sovereigntists and social democrats, as they are charging ahead with despite backtracking by the Conservatives over the weekend, but by moving in the short term to settle their own leadership questions.

After their abysmal showing in the Oct. 14 election, the Liberals should have replaced Stéphane Dion with an interim leader. And as the events of the past four days illustrate, the party does not have the luxury of a drawn-out leadership contest. May is too late. They must settle on a plan to expedite their choice, perhaps by putting the matter to a vote by their caucus, national executive and riding presidents.

It's too late to turn back the clock and allow a co-operative exercise in policy-making during an economic crisis. The Conservatives are almost entirely responsible for that. The antipathy they provoked will not, consequently, disappear. The current Parliament promises to be short and ugly, and the Liberal Party must ready itself to provide an alternative when the country is again forced to the polls.

But despite the events of the past few days, the Conservatives are better positioned to provide stable government than the alternative. They should be given another chance to make this Parliament work. If, however, they take that opportunity as licence to continue their pattern of behaviour, setting aside the country's interests in pursuit of their own, the opposition will be justified in defeating them at the next opportunity.
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:18 PM   #54
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I have nothing to say, except I've enjoyed reading this thread, for the most part. As a Canadian permanent resident, I can't vote anyway.
i concur. except for the part about being a canadian resident.

not to derail the thread, but would any canadian posters prefer the u.s. presidential system to your parliamentary system?
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:48 PM   #55
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i concur. except for the part about being a canadian resident.

not to derail the thread, but would any canadian posters prefer the u.s. presidential system to your parliamentary system?
No.

The main problem I have with our system is the first-past-the-post way of determining riding winners. In any given riding you'll have vote-splitting parties that allow another party to come right down the middle and win it. For example, in Quebec we have a choice of three centre-left parties and one right party, the Conservatives. In some cases, the right party will take the riding with 30 percent of the vote, even though two-thirds of the electorate voted for a party that's ideologically opposite the Conservatives.

This was also the case in Western provinces during the 90s that had two right-leaning parties that allowed the Liberals to win seats they probably wouldn't have otherwise.

I would much prefer to see an electoral system based on proportional representation.

That being said, in my opinion, I think the Canadian system is superior in that of the United States, at least with respect to the fact that the Prime Minister is accountable for his actions in the House of Commons on a daily basis. He has to explain his policies and actions directly to the Canadian electorate and answer questions directly from MPs—something the U.S. President does not have to do.
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Old 12-01-2008, 03:04 PM   #56
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not to derail the thread, but would any canadian posters prefer the u.s. presidential system to your parliamentary system?
Not a chance.

I think your electoral college system is crooked.

Plus, there is no way we'd have had to put up with Bush for 8 years under our system.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:11 PM   #57
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Dion, Layton sign coalition accord

The brutal politics continues. It's like I thought. There should only be one left-wing party. Why split into different parties when they have a common ground.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:05 PM   #58
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Really good, balanced article from the Globe & Mail today:
Great article and pretty much sums up how I feel.

Now that it's been confirmed Dion would head the coalition, I suspect there will be a public backlash between now and next Monday and the opposition will be brutally humiliated.

I don't like Harper but I think it's time they back off...
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:09 PM   #59
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Should the NDP and Liberals merge, you'd likely see a leftist government here almost constantly. Until the CPC moved left, because Harper is too far right for the Canadian people as a whole and that is the truth that many refuse to face. They are Reform Lite.

To think that in time of fiscal crisis, with the Liberals having the most useless leader in decades who is, by the way, despised in Quebec, with the Bloc considerably underperforming and with Layton basically stuck in mud and unable to attain more seats election after election and a totally feckless Green Party led by a woman so dumb that she decided to run in McKay's riding, the Canadian people STILL did not want to give Harper a mandate to govern. This was his best chance at a majority and he didn't get it. His time as a leader is coming to an end, but if the Conservatives want to have a future they have to open their eyes and realize that the majority of Canadians don't want them to govern. Given the shift to the left down south, this will become even more pronounced.

The CPC is too conservative for most Canadians outside of Alberta. It remains to be seen whether they will shift closer to the principles of the old PC, which was quite a reasonable conservative party and not Republicans Lite.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:59 PM   #60
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I agree with everything you posted but at the end of the day, Canadians didn't vote for a coalition - more voters voted for the Conservatives than any other party.
I know it's legal and well within their right but I'm not convinced it's warranted at this stage. The Tories caved on the one issue that really mattered to the opposition (public financing) so I'm not even sure on what grounds they're going to vote against the Conservatives come next Monday.
Some could say Flaherty's update didn't contain enough goodies to spur the economy but the budget will be announced in under 2 months, granted that might be too long of a wait but is that worth overthrowing the elected government?

I can't believe I'm defending the Conservatives
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