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Old 12-04-2008, 08:59 PM   #151
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Why would I go live in the East when they have less jobs because of higher taxes and provincial trade barriers.
Why would I go live in Alberta when I'd make way less money than I do now?
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:05 PM   #152
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Your last sentence seems to bear little relation to the rest of your post. In terms of its social welfare system, Ireland is much closer to the continental Europe model than the US model. Also, currently, Ireland's economy is in s***. See here:- http://www.davy.ie/content/pubarticl...cr20081204.pdf

Neither is Ireland's saving ratio particularly impressive over the last few years (although not as bad as the US). On the other hand, the savings ratio has improved slightly recently (as referenced in the above link), which I imagine meets with your approval.
I'm talking about Ireland compared to what it was 20 years ago. Sure it's not doing well during the downturn but most of the world is in a downturn at the same time. When they recover they will be able to move ahead if they keep their taxes in check and trade flowing. I like Ireland. It's definitely a good example for Europe recession or no.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This shows Ireland in 7th place. Not bad for the northern tiger. Though I bet Iceland is not in 10th place anymore. It will be interesting to see next year what the placements are.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:06 PM   #153
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Here's just another shitty generalization of yours...
While many valid critiques can be made of Purpleoscar's arguments in this thread, it's a bit over the top to take exception to a statement that most posters here are more interested in politics than economics. I would have thought the statement almost a truism.

Indeed, it is only since Purpleoscar started posting on the forum that we have had anything in the way of decent debates on economics.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:07 PM   #154
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Why would I go live in Alberta when I'd make way less money than I do now?
The cost of living is less in Alberta unless you look at Fort McMurray which is the hot spot for the oil industry. Purchasing power is what matters.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:11 PM   #155
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I'm talking about Ireland compared to what it was 20 years ago. Sure it's not doing well during the downturn but most of the world is in a downturn at the same time. When they recover they will be able to move ahead if they keep their taxes in check and trade flowing. I like Ireland. It's definitely a good example for Europe recession or no.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This shows Ireland in 7th place. Not bad for the northern tiger.
Yes, but I don't see how that bears any relation to what you were saying in the rest of your post. And unfortunately, I do not agree with your statement that Ireland is a good example for Europe. For example, we have huge private sector debt.

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Though I bet Iceland is not in 10th place anymore. It will be interesting to see next year what the placements are.
Well, you've said it yourself. Iceland was a bubble economy. Ireland's was also, though I am optimistic on this. Optimistic to the extent that I think we will just about manage to stave off national bankruptcy (honestly, it is that serious. On a bearish economics forum I post on, I'm viewed as one of the optimists).

But if you are looking for predictions - random semi-educated guess - I think Ireland will slip to around 20th place in those rankings. Which is more or less where we started, back in the '80s.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:16 PM   #156
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While many valid critiques can be made of Purpleoscar's arguments in this thread, it's a bit over the top to take exception to a statement that most posters here are more interested in politics than economics. I would have thought the statement almost a truism.

Indeed, it is only since Purpleoscar started posting on the forum that we have had anything in the way of decent debates on economics.
It gets exasperating when people say I have to travel to a place before I can make a comment on economics in that particular place. We know that nobody follows this rule. It ends up looking like politics. If people just agree to disagree it's much better than arguing about travel.

When you look at most of the world and see how markets opened up you can see much of the same rules applying throughout. Private property, trade, democracy may have different cultural aspects but much of the basics still hold true. When you have the above you definitely have it better than when you don't. Most countries have a balance between government and private sector and those with most of the GDP in the private sector tend to do better. The problem for some people is that there is a mindset taught in school (especially university) that attacks business and is even quite extreme. When a university graduate goes to work with entitlement attitudes inculcated from school they get disappointed at work and sometimes give up too soon. Teaching perseverance and a positive competitive view helps with an individual's outcome and expectations when at work.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:18 PM   #157
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The cost of living is less in Alberta unless you look at Fort McMurray which is the hot spot for the oil industry. Purchasing power is what matters.
Cost of living in places like Calgary is not that low and the salary I'd be receiving is significantly lower. Mathematically, I'm waaaay ahead out here in Ontario where we all work for the government and there are no jobs.

And, you know, we get to live in TO as opposed to say, Red Deer.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:18 PM   #158
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For example, we have huge private sector debt.
Thanks
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:20 PM   #159
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And, you know, we get to live in TO as opposed to say, Red Deer.
Well if you're an alcoholic you would find lots of friends there otherwise there's not much to do. In Alberta we call it "drive through country".
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:23 PM   #160
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I just find it hilarious that you rail on the East for feeding from the government trough when Toronto is still the financial capital, it's where the major banks are, the centre of corporate law, etc. You are just Houston to Canada's New York, but the way you talk you'd think we're Somalia out here.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:25 PM   #161
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And, you know, we get to live in TO as opposed to say, Red Deer.
Liberals aren't elitists.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:28 PM   #162
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I just find it hilarious that you rail on the East for feeding from the government trough when Toronto is still the financial capital, it's where the major banks are, the centre of corporate law, etc.
These professions do not create wealth for society, however. They enrich themselves, but they do not create wealth. Lawyers and bankers are not creative. Scientists and engineers are largely the real wealth creators.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:30 PM   #163
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These professions do not create wealth for society, however. They enrich themselves, but they do not create wealth. Lawyers and bankers are not creative. Scientists and engineers are largely the real wealth creators.
That is beside the point. purpleoscar continually states that we are underperforming out here in the East, because we're sitting our asses in cushy government jobs when in fact we're where most of the private sector is.

And besides that if you want to talk about wealth creators, then we're also the centre of almost ALL academia and scientific R&D in the country as well.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:31 PM   #164
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It gets exasperating when people say I have to travel to a place before I can make a comment on economics in that particular place. We know that nobody follows this rule. It ends up looking like politics. If people just agree to disagree it's much better than arguing about travel.
It's not so much about the travel. It's just about acknowledging there are other factors involved, you believe everyone can accomplish the same levels of success if they just apply the same formula, but that's simply not true. You've been given several examples, you've just chosen to ignore them...
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:39 PM   #165
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While many valid critiques can be made of Purpleoscar's arguments in this thread, it's a bit over the top to take exception to a statement that most posters here are more interested in politics than economics. I would have thought the statement almost a truism.
Well I think this ignores the fact that politics and economics are closely tied together, and to completely seperate the two is quite ridiculous.

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Indeed, it is only since Purpleoscar started posting on the forum that we have had anything in the way of decent debates on economics.
Really? Wow, I would have thought that you of all people could see through his lack of full understanding, and that the majority of economic debate since he started posting has been about how one can't make such blanket statements, how one can confuse the micro with the macro, etc etc...

It's true he's brought about some debates of theory, I'll give him that, but application has been a trainwreck.
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