Canadian Election aka Let Borefest '08 begin!

[bonoman]

If you can't beat em, join em!

http://http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/07/election-call.html

You Americans really know how to throw an election, us Canadians though, like to have pointless elections that will solve nothing but another minority government.

We have the two leaders of the Liberals and Conservatives who would make John McCain seem full of life! It's funny when Canadians are more interested in another countries election than our own!

Well, maybe Obama or Palin will make a visit up north and create some excitement, but I doubt it. Enjoy your likeable candidates, at least it makes it somewhat interesting.

 

[anitram]

We have the two leaders of the Liberals and Conservatives who would make John McCain seem full of life!

But then we also have Jack Layton and his porn moustache.

 

[deep]

I heard about this on public radio today.

I think it is just the arrogance and elitism of the Canadians that would lead them to do this.

After all the crap of our primary season,. dog and pony show conventions, and several tabloid scandals.

They announce a national election that will begin and end before any one can get pregnant or even tap a foot in a bathroom stall.

add this to our huge trade deficit,

it is enough to make me wonder if they are hiding the WMDs.

We need a quick victory. Canada is tempting.

 

[melon]

I think this kind of malaise has partly to do with the nature of parliamentary democracy. In other words, you can never directly vote for or against your prime minister; you just have to vote for or against the party, which I would tend to say also means that your MPs are less likely to be independently-minded, thus making it even less interesting.

I would also say that it's not terribly unsurprising that Harper is calling for an election, if only because minority governments mean that the party in power doesn't get their agenda through, obviously. In terms of the timing, though, I believe Harper wanted to squeeze it in before the U.S. election, because with a potential Obama victory, it is thought that Canadian voters might be more Liberal sympathetic. Thus, Harper is trying to take advantage of the fact that Dion is perceived as "weak" by many voters, and with a Canadian economy that is generally faring well, but with the prospect of recession looming around the corner (like the rest of the world), Harper probably thinks that this is as good of a moment as any to try for a majority government, because October 2009 is not looking as rosy currently.

 

[anitram]

I think this kind of malaise has partly to do with the nature of parliamentary democracy.

I'm really not sure that's true, because having voted in a number of elections, there has been quite a different feeling when people were excited about who was running. For example, back in 1993 when the Liberals kicked out Kim Campbell (really a referendum on Mulroney), there was a palpable excitement in the air - you could say it was an election of change.

 

[melon]

I'm really not sure that's true, because having voted in a number of elections, there has been quite a different feeling when people were excited about who was running. For example, back in 1993 when the Liberals kicked out Kim Campbell (really a referendum on Mulroney), there was a palpable excitement in the air - you could say it was an election of change.

True, and that reminds me of the fact that the 1992 election was considered very much to be an "election of change" for the U.S. too.

Likewise, I think there's an awful lot more malaise this time around even in this U.S. election than the media would want us to believe. I think a lot of us want to believe that Obama will bring change, but are not entirely convinced of it, considering the Democratic Party's track record. At least that's how I feel.

 

[anitram]

The funniest part about our elections are the awful ads. I mean, you would not believe how terrible they are. Canadians always joke about how "cheap" Canadian TV productions look (it's true), and so I guess this is no surprise, and yet it still takes you aback every election season.

I don't see a Conservative majority at all this time, either it will stay a minority or will flip to a slight Liberal minority. The question is really Quebec, which has bought into Dion's green plan hook, line and sinker. The last polls I saw were something like 50%+ of Quebeckers supported the plan which is really aggressively environmental and includes new taxes. The Conservatives did really well in Quebec last time, by their standards anyway, and can't afford to lose those seats.

 

[namkcuR]

I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?

 

[bonoman]

Thus, Harper is trying to take advantage of the fact that Dion is perceived as "weak" by many voters

I think this is the main reason Harper thinks he might squeze out a near majority. This would be the best result of this election: Harper gains a few seats and Dion gets turfed from leadership to be replaced with Ignaiteff.

The liberals need a leader who can speak english, or at least a leader who makes up for his english abilities with some charisma.

All it'll be is a big Harper=Bush, Dion=Boring snoozer!

Keep your eyes open on the American news tonight and tomorrow, I bet our election does'nt even get a mention. Not only do we have to hear about your election now we've one of our own! Damnit!

 

[bonoman]

I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?

Instead of confusing people with Republicans and Democrat we decided to dumb it down a bit... I don't think we succeded.

 

[anitram]

I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?

At the moment, it is roughly like this:

Our Conservatives are what your Republicans would be. But this is really in theory/name only. In reality they are probably on the level of your "moderate" or right-leaning Democrats. They really don't run on social issues anymore, have declared the gay marriage issue "closed" and direct their Members of Parliament to muzzle themselves on the matter of abortion during the election because as soon as somebody brings it up, they basically tank in the polls and lose. They are mostly economic conservatives, and even recognize environmental issues but are too stubborn to come up with a comprehensive plan. They are no longer global warming deniers, as unlike their GOP friends, they can read the writing on the wall.

Our Liberals are probably most like your most liberal Democrats, with some even more liberal than that, depending on what part of the country they are from.

Then we have the NDP which are left of that, and this is a crowd that would most certainly never get elected in the US. They generally get a few seats in certain areas and sometimes win in provincial elections, but in federal ones they either play spoiler or they play the part of a somewhat-influential opposition when we have a minority government.

Then there are the Greens, who just got their first seat ever, but that's because the guy switched parties, not because he was elected. They are lead by Elizabeth May, who is quite an interesting and well-liked figure and keeps basically moving from riding to riding trying to get elected. If I'm not mistaken, she's running in Peter McKay's riding this time which pretty much ensures a loss (is she dumb or what?). For those who don't know, the current Conservatives are made up of 2 parties that joined a few years ago when they realized they were splitting the vote and McKay was the leader of one of those parties.

Then there is the Parti Quebecois which runs only in Quebec, is socially really leftist, but just pretty much interested in Quebec's needs. They swing on the separatism spectrum depending on the current leadership and the national mood.

 

[melon]

I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?

From what I know, the short answer is yes.

The more complicated answer is that the Liberal Party is center left, the Democratic Party is center right. The Conservative Party has two competing factions, one that has an awful lot in common with the Republican Party ("Blue Tories," reflective of the fact that the Conservative Party color is blue) and one that is still fiscally conservative, while more socially moderate/liberal ("Red Tories," reflective of the Liberal Party red). Since Canadian politics skew left (unlike American politics that skew right), the Conservative Party has had to tone down their social conservatism, which is why they only put up token resistance to gay marriage the last time around, and just let it pass.

The big question this time around is whether they would become more socially conservative if given a majority government. For the sake of having elections and governments dominated by debates over serious issues, rather than hot-button issues and religious bigotry, I certainly hope that they don't.

 

[anitram]

The Conservative Party has two competing factions, one that has an awful lot in common with the Republican Party ("Blue Tories," reflective of the fact that the Conservative Party color is blue) and one that is still fiscally conservative, while more socially moderate/liberal ("Red Tories," reflective of the Liberal Party red).

They are really the PC (progressive conservative) faction and the Reform/Alliance faction.

 

[VintagePunk]

But then we also have Jack Layton and his porn moustache.

Jack Layton's been spamming my e-mail inbox lately.

 

[bonoman]

My buddy has a great sticker on his hardhat:

Theres nothing Progressive about being Conservative!

Loved it!

Harper will never run on a socially conservative platform, but if he did get into power I really think he would push far more conservative issues that he does'nt usually talk about. Would he take away gay marriage, abortion rights? No. But everyday Canadian values would be up for grabs, such as our commitment to arts and culture, health care, and our military missions abroad. Thats where he losses me, and being a unionist, I couldnt look myself in the mirror after voting PC.

Even if their husband is a member of the Steelworkers Union

 

[melon]

They are really the PC (progressive conservative) faction and the Reform/Alliance faction.

I was tempted to call it that, but I was thinking it wasn't technical enough, as there are still socially conservative Conservatives from non-Western provinces.

 

[anitram]

I was tempted to call it that, but I was thinking it wasn't technical enough, as there are still socially conservative Conservatives from non-Western provinces.

Yeah, I guess that's sort of like how you can get very socially conservative areas of staunch blue states as well. Northern/rural Ontario, for example only votes the same way as the rest of the province when there is a tsunami election.

 

[VintagePunk]

I know basically nothing about Canadian politics. Just a very basic question...when you speak of 'conservative' and 'liberal' in the context of Canadian politics, do they mean the same as they do in American politics, or are they different?

I know you didn't ask this, but another difference is, as someone said earlier, here, we place the vote for our local representative (our Member of Parliament) as opposed to voting for the party leader, either the incumbent Prime Minister, or the leader of an opposing party. So, if you have someone who is a good local representative, someone who gets things done for your community, it's really difficult to unseat that person, even if the political tide has changed, and an opposing party becomes the flavour of the day.

Both our MP and MPP are Liberal, and have been in power for several election cycles. That won't change, they've done a great deal of good for our city.

 

[anitram]

Both our MP and MPP are Liberal, and have been in power for several election cycles. That won't change, they've done a great deal of good for our city.

Yes, but is Hazel your mayor?

 

[VintagePunk]

Ha! No, it hasn't been quite that long!

Actually, our Mayor is a dickwad, and really needs to go. I'm in Brantford. Have you been paying attention to the Native land issues? Shameful.

 

[anitram]

There is a rather well known Aboriginal law prof at the law school I attended and I think he's actually on sabbatical this year working on a number of issues there.

My parents are in Miss, and they lurve their Hazel.

 

[VintagePunk]

Good for him, they need all the help they can get. There really are a lot of prominent citizens and business owners on their side, though, as they should be, IMO. As is one of our former mayors, who will hopefully be reelected next time around.

I'm waiting for the army to get here and restore peace, any day now.

 

[BoMac]

The Canadian Election Discussion Thread

Well, Mr. Harper went against his own fixed-election date legislation and asked the Governor General to dissolve Parliament, resulting in an election on Oct. 14.

He's clearly seeking a majority government, but will end up with roughly the same minority as the last Parliament. The key will be how many seats the Conservatives win in Quebec, but I think the "swing" province may be Ontario. The Liberals will do better than expected there, I think.

Anyway, for Canadian political junkies like myself, October and November (U.S. election) will be heaven indeed.

 

[deep]

Hey BoMac

http://forum.interference.com/f199/let-borefest-08-begin-189514.html

perhaps

a merge
will lead to a surge

 

[VintagePunk]

Suggestion - maybe the title could be added to, to reflect the subject matter? Canadians are aware of what Borefest refers to, but others might not be.

 

[BoMac]

Hey BoMac

http://forum.interference.com/f199/let-borefest-08-begin-189514.html

perhaps

a merge
will lead to a surge

I had no idea Borefest meant the general election! I agree with VP, I think a title change is in order!

 

[yolland]

But isn't that how the whole rest of the world refers to it?

(j/k)

 

[VintagePunk]

But isn't that how the whole rest of the world refers to it?

(j/k)

If they only knew the extent of it, Yolland.

 

[bonoman]

I would like to defend my title! This will be a Borefest, and I for one think that it should be officially named that.

Just kidding, I just want the rights to Borefest to remain with me, maybe I'll sell them to the CBC, but they can't even afford to keep the HNIC theme song so I don't expect a large offer.

 

[bonoman]

The best part of yesterdays kickoff to the election was Jack Layton not attempting to hide his campaign stratagy. He isn't even hiding that he is stealing Obama's speaking points. He's all for change and hope, and no more of the same.

I agree with the NDP on issues that are very important to me, but this is just plain sad. I don't think he'll be the leader of the NDP after this election.